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Post by smathis on Aug 31, 2011 14:43:58 GMT -5
Going to do something a little different with my fed soon. And I wanted these vintage guys in it. It was difficult finding info on them. Video pretty much non-existent.
But from what I was able to get my hands on, these movesets sound accurate. At least in the ballpark.
Enjoy!
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Post by smathis on Aug 31, 2011 14:47:11 GMT -5
The Great Gama was a wrestling sensation back in the day. Stanislaus Zybyszko fought him to a draw. But nobody else in Legends would accept his challenge. Pretty much the Goldberg of the turn of the century.
His bread-and-butter was tripping a guy or throwing him to the mat and then using his strength to pin him down. Gama was not known as a mat wrestler. Mostly a standing up wrestler whose focus was more on trips, sweeps and throws.
He was known for lightning fast matches. He was beating guys in a minute or less back when short wrestling matches were an hour. Hence his added ability to get a quick pin on some guys.
The Great Gama Lion of the Punjab
Height: 5'9 Weight: 250 Amritsar, Punjab
LEVEL 1 OFFENSE 1. galloping gait - 1 2. single leg takedown - 1 3. standing headlock - 2 4. into the turnbuckle 5. body slam - 2 (pw) 6. go behind & trip - 3* (ag)
LEVEL 2 OFFENSE 1. wrist lock - 2 2. flying mare - 2 3. into the ropes (c) 4. Quarter Nelson - 3 (ch E) 5. toe-hold - 3 6. leg sweep - 3*
LEVEL 3 OFFENSE 1. axe kick to the kidney - 2 (ch F) 2. out of the ring (c) 3. standing ankle lock - 3 4. waist lock - 3 5. BODYLOCK THROW/THESZ PRESS (+1)" 6. ROLLING HALF-NELSON (+1)
LEVEL 1 DEFENSE 1. GREAT GAMA - 2 2. dazed - 1 3. dazed - 1 4. GREAT GAMA - 1 5. GREAT GAMA - 1 6. dazed - 1
LEVEL 2 DEFENSE 1. GREAT GAMA - 1 2. dazed - 1 3. hurt - 2 4. hurt - 2 5. hurt - 2 6. GREAT GAMA - 2
LEVEL 3 DEFENSE 1. hurt - 2 2. down - 3 (lv) 3. hurt - 2 4. hurt - 2 5. hurt - 2 6. PIN 5(2)
Pw: -2 Ag: -2
DQ: 4 Cage: 3
Ropes: B Turnbuckle: B Ring: B Deathjump: B
* - When opponent rolls 'down - 3' after one of these moves, the opponent rolls PIN but takes no Fatigue from the PIN attempt.
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Post by smathis on Aug 31, 2011 14:52:11 GMT -5
Buddy O'Brien was hardcore back in the 1920s. Though it would be foolish to say he invented the style, I haven't heard of any other wrestler before him attacking opponents with chairs, benches and tables. Yet there he was.
If Sandman and Dr. Jerry Graham were to have a child, O'Brien would be it. He was just mean. Not so much interested in winning a match as hurting his opponent as much as possible before getting disqualified. I can't help thinking that O'Brien and the Sheik would've had some wild matches.
It's safe to say that O'Brien was the most hated man in wrestling. Ever. He caused riots almost everywhere he went. And was legit beaten to death by a policeman.
EDIT: As an additional note, O'Brien was credited in one report with lighting some "paper" on fire and rubbing the smoldering "soot" in an opponent's eyes. Think of it as an early version of the "Fireball". I figured that was covered by "rub powder in opponent's eyes". Other things he rubbed in opponents eyes included sandpaper, dirt and soap (which he hid in his mouth prior to a match). Eww.
'Bloody' Buddy O'Brien
Height: 5'7 Weight: 155 Chemung County, New York
LEVEL 1 OFFENSE 1. tie-up with a headbutt - 1 2. forearm uppercut - 2 3. standing headlock - 2 4. body slam - 2 (pw) 5. box opponent's ears - 2 (ag) 6. into the turnbuckle
LEVEL 2 OFFENSE 1. shout at ringside fans - 1 2. eye gouge - 2 3. into the ropes (c) 4. stomp opponent - 2 (ch C) 5. choke with forearm against ropes - 3 6. rub powder in opponent's eyes - 3 add 1 dq
LEVEL 3 OFFENSE 1. brawling punches - 3 (ch H) 2. out of the ring (c) 3. out of the ring 4. beatdown in corner - 3 5. foreign object - 3*** 6. STRANGLEHOLD (+1)
LEVEL 1 DEFENSE 1. dazed - 1 2. BUDDY O'BRIEN - 1 3. dazed - 1 4. hurt - 2 5. BUDDY O'BRIEN - 1 6. dazed - 1
LEVEL 2 DEFENSE 1. hurt - 2 2. hurt - 2 3. BUDDY O'BRIEN - 2 4. hurt - 2 5. hurt - 2 6. hurt - 2
LEVEL 3 DEFENSE 1. down - 3 2. hurt - 2 3. down - 3 (lv)** 4. PIN 7(4)* 5. hurt - 2 6. hurt - 2
Pw: 0 Ag: +1 DQ: 8 Cage: 2
Ropes: B Turnbuckle: B Ring: A Deathjump: C
* - If O'Brien is pinned with less than 4 Fatigue, roll two dice. 2-4: Nothing happens. 5-8: O'Brien blinds opponent and beats him with ringside items. 9-11: O'Brien handcuffs opponent to the ropes and beats him with a chair. 12: O'Brien's antics cause a riot. ** - Once per match, roll two dice on this result. On 2-6, O'Brien attacks the referee and knocks him unconscious. This gains him an instant DQ but the match ends with a roll on the feud chart. *** - Common items used by O'Brien were soap and sandpaper for blinding, choking with a ringside towel or rope or smashing with a chair.
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Post by smathis on Aug 31, 2011 14:56:26 GMT -5
Stanislaus Zbyszko was sort of a strongman back in the day. About the way Bruno Sammartino was portrayed as a strongman. His strategy was "the best offense is a good defense" and was known for wearing his opponent out by taking a solid beating. A little bit nutso but whatever.
As such, his matches could sometimes be very dull. With Zybyszko taking a whooping and waiting for his opponent to tire out while trying to avoid serious injury on himself.
You'll notice the card pretty much reflects that. Not an offensive powerhouse but it will be really tough to keep Stanislaus down.
As a sidenote, Zybyszko also liked to party. He'd go out on the town after matches with the likes of Babe Ruth and other celebrities. He would've been right at home in the Four Horsemen.
Stanislaus Zbyszko
Height: 5'8 Weight: 230 Vienna, Austria
LEVEL 1 OFFENSE 1. collar and elbow tie-up - 1 2. over-under - 1 3. pinch grip tie throw - 2 4. waist lock - 2 5. into the ropes 6. body slam - 2 (pw)
LEVEL 2 OFFENSE 1. underhook and trip - 2 (ag) 2. grinding headlock - 2 3. toe hold - 2 4. overhead wristlock - 2 (ch B) 5. half nelson - 3 6. bearhug - 3
LEVEL 3 OFFENSE 1. front facelock - 2 2. Full Nelson - 3 (ch D) 3. out of the ring (c) 4. rear mount - 3 5. Hanging Bear Hug - 3 6. PRESS SLAM (+2)
LEVEL 1 DEFENSE 1. STANISLAUS ZBYSZKO - 2 2. dazed - 1 3. STANISLAUS ZBYSZKO - 2 4. dazed - 1 5. dazed - 1 6. hurt - 2
LEVEL 2 DEFENSE 1. STANISLAUS ZBYSZKO - 1 2. dazed - 1 3. dazed - 1 4. hurt - 2 5. hurt - 2 6. hurt - 2
LEVEL 3 DEFENSE 1. PIN 5(2) 2. down - 3 (lv) 3. hurt - 2 4. hurt - 2 5. hurt - 2 6. hurt - 2
Pw: -2 Ag: 0 DQ: 4 Cage: 3
Ropes: B Turnbuckle: B Ring: B Deathjump: C
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Post by smathis on Aug 31, 2011 14:59:37 GMT -5
So here's the vintage guys I've wanted for a while now. Hope you all enjoy them. Gama always wanted a shot at Gotch. But, of course, Gotch dodged him. Zybyszko only barely inched his way up into the championship ranks. I'm sure he'd love a chance to prove to the LWF that he's just as good as Gotch, Lewis, Thesz and Hackenschmidt.
And O'Brien? Just put him in a match with The Crusher. Awesomeness will follow.
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Post by smathis on Aug 31, 2011 15:11:08 GMT -5
Oh, and as a final note, I don't generally do cards that have "funky" mechanics tacked on. I've got several cards on the LOW card thread (attributed to "Anonymous" of course -- thanks LWPD!) but the only one that has any funky mechanic associated with it is Dr. Jerry Graham. That's because Graham tended to like to get bloodied in a match. And while it sort of stood to reason that he would get tougher once bloodied -- that isn't how his matches played out. So pretty much the easiest way to beat him is to bloody him. THAT'S how his matches played out.
For Gama, he was renowned for Mike Tyson quick matches. He'd lock up a guy. They'd sumo for a few seconds then trip, BAM!, press and pin. It took me a little while to get the gist of the reports but it sounded a lot like Gama was using what's called a Thesz Press to hold down his opponents. Without the slinging into the ropes, of course. He just wound up in that position when he took a guy to the mat. So Gama needed something to reflect the fact that he could pin a guy in, really, one or two rolls. But I don't think his card is crazy over-powered as a result. He'll wipe the floor with Steve Corino or SD Jones. But I think Gotch would really stand up to him well.
For O'Brien... well... he just needed something to reflect the tantrums and riots that often followed his matches. Where he'd beat the stuffing out of a guy, using stools, chairs, pieces of table... you name it. It's like he has his own feud chart. Which really, really fits.
Zybyszko didn't need anything special. Except some massaging of the defense to reflect how he could turtle and draw out matches. If Zybyszko doesn't take a match to a time-limit draw, you need to re-examine how you keep time. And, yes, Zybyszko legit used the press slam. That was as close to a true-blue finishing maneuver as any of these guys had.
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Post by TTX on Aug 31, 2011 18:08:34 GMT -5
Good stuff. A small note, Gama's -2 (ch D) should be -2 (ch F)
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Post by chewey on Aug 31, 2011 22:19:59 GMT -5
Great work, Smathis! Now do you have a Wladek Zbyszko to go along with Stanislaus? I forget which Zbyszko it was that won the World Championship... the story I heard was that Ed "Strangler" Lewis and his managers thought he could make more money if he "dropped" the belt to a football player just to "beat" him for the title back later. This being a time when the lines in wrestling being "real" and "fake" were very blurred.
One of the Zbyszkos then shot on the football player (who I think was Wayne Munn?), and won the championship. And then either Lewis' camp had to negotiate a handsome fee to put the belt back on Lewis, or Lewis had to sack up and regain the belt in a legitimate shoot.
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Post by smathis on Sept 1, 2011 9:05:20 GMT -5
Good stuff. A small note, Gama's -2 (ch D) should be -2 (ch F) Thanks, Troy.
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Post by smathis on Sept 1, 2011 9:16:06 GMT -5
Great work, Smathis! Now do you have a Wladek Zbyszko to go along with Stanislaus? I forget which Zbyszko it was that won the World Championship... the story I heard was that Ed "Strangler" Lewis and his managers thought he could make more money if he "dropped" the belt to a football player just to "beat" him for the title back later. This being a time when the lines in wrestling being "real" and "fake" were very blurred. One of the Zbyszkos then shot on the football player (who I think was Wayne Munn?), and won the championship. And then either Lewis' camp had to negotiate a handsome fee to put the belt back on Lewis, or Lewis had to sack up and regain the belt in a legitimate shoot. That was Stanislaus. And I don't think it was Strangler Lewis that was involved in that double-cross. There was a trio of promoters that ran most of the wrestling business at that time. As I recall, Joe Stecher was among them. Toots Mondt. And another guy whose name I SHOULD remember because he was the Vince McMahon Jr. of that era and innovated the practice of booking matches. My bad on that one. Anyway, Joe Stecher had a falling out with the other guys and decided to break off from them. Probably because of how the matches were all going to be fixed and the idea to put the belt on somebody who was so obviously not a wrestler (Wayne Munn). To establish the legitimacy of their titleholder, the bookers wanted him to beat Stanislaus Zybyszko -- who was known and respected as a legit wrestler. At the match, though, Zybyszko had other ideas. Just before the match he had been contacted by Tony Stecher (related to Joe, of course) and shot on the match and beat Munn soundly. In fact, Stanislaus pinned Munn repeatedly but the referee refused to count. Until, of course, he could no longer avoid it. After that, Zybyszko took the belt to Stecher's rival promotion. They didn't have anyone who could take it off him. And this was the origin of having a "shooter" carry the title. And one of the reasons Lou Thesz held the belt for so long in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s. Mildred Burke too, on the ladies' side of things. And even through the 60s and 70s, promotions kept a "shooter" on hand for situations like this. Reference Gene LeBell and Bearcat Brown.
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