Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:26:24 GMT -5
Modern pro-wres, especially on the independents and in Japan is very good. Honestly from a match quality standpoint I can't think of a time when indie wrestling in this country was worse. Even the late 2000s black hole period was better than what's going on now. 100%. All Japan from the first stuff that made tape in the 70s up until like 2003 or so is one of the best runs any promotion has ever had...maybe the best run. There's really nothing that comes close in terms of pure longevity and number of all-time great matches.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:31:33 GMT -5
Thats your opinion and I respect that. But this evolution of the wrestling art made wrestling better and more fun for me personally, and I know I am not alone in that feeling. Every artform evolves over time to adjust to what a group of fans are looking for. All types of entertainment are vastly different from how it was for previous generations. For some the new stuff sucks and for some its better than ever. Same with music, cartoons, etc. Then again I think Teen Titans Go is the best cartoon ever set in the DC Comics universe, which I know is blasphemous to most. Well, today's audience has become very broad with the all the different forms of entertainment added to pro wrestling, that's a fact! Most people that never cared for old school pro wrestling have finally said they can at least "tolerate" watching it now, even go as far to say "enjoy it" for previously mentioned "comedy" in their act. Like TM has said, opinions will vary. Different strokes for different folks, it is what it is. Today's audience is also decidedly smaller than at any point in the history of the medium. That's a fact. It is what it is, but what it is, isn't exactly 'good' for the business because there's still fewer people watching wrestling than ever before. If you honestly look at it, the only two promotions that are in a better position now than they were a decade ago are New Japan and Ring of Honor. Everyone else is either in a similar spot or worse off. If you enjoy modern wrestling more or whatever, that's fine but don't pass down the bullshit line that it's 'better' for the business because it's not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:38:38 GMT -5
I feel like my signature should be a picture of Cornette and/or Bill Watts now because I've finally reached the point of being a really grumpy old man and I'm not even 30 yet.
|
|
|
Post by Tournament Master on Jan 8, 2018 19:57:33 GMT -5
Today's audience is also decidedly smaller than at any point in the history of the medium. That's a fact. It is what it is, but what it is, isn't exactly 'good' for the business because there's still fewer people watching wrestling than ever before. If you honestly look at it, the only two promotions that are in a better position now than they were a decade ago are New Japan and Ring of Honor. Everyone else is either in a similar spot or worse off. If you enjoy modern wrestling more or whatever, that's fine but don't pass down the bullshit line that it's 'better' for the business because it's not. With so many entertainment options, every form of long standing entertainment has less people watching then ever before through conventional methods. Whats your point? Compare prime time TV ratings to where they were 20 years ago. Sure, you wont ever get Monday Night War ratings, but still lots of people are watching wrestling in a variety of ways, whether it be on youtube, streaming services, pirating videos or who knows what else. The wrestling business makes more money now than it ever has. Sure there may be less total viewers than at other points, but the revenue opportunity is greater than ever.
|
|
|
Post by Tournament Master on Jan 8, 2018 20:07:11 GMT -5
I feel like my signature should be a picture of Cornette and/or Bill Watts now because I've finally reached the point of being a really grumpy old man and I'm not even 30 yet. LOL...I totally popped for this. You are an old soul Switch!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 20:13:47 GMT -5
With so many entertainment options, every form of long standing entertainment has less people watching then ever before through conventional methods. The percentage of viewers that have left likely isn't nearly as ghastly if you compare it to the percentage of pro wrestling fans that have gone away in the last 15 years but okay. Here, I'll restate it for you: "Today's audience is also decidedly smaller than at any point in the history of the medium. That's a fact. It is what it is, but what it is, isn't exactly 'good' for the business because there's still fewer people watching wrestling than ever before. If you honestly look at it, the only two promotions that are in a better position now than they were a decade ago are New Japan and Ring of Honor. Everyone else is either in a similar spot or worse off." That's uh...pretty easy to understand. Since a decade was apparently too long ago, compare WWE's overall attendance and ratings to five years ago. Compare attendance numbers across the board to five years ago, hell even two years ago. The only companies doing better than they were five years ago or two years ago from a 'more people are watching them' standpoint are New Japan and ROH. The only promotions doing decidedly better overall than they were then are New Japan and ROH. Again, everyone else is in the same spot or worse. Compare prime time TV ratings to where they were 20 years ago. Nobody's talking about 20 years ago, dude. Sure, you wont ever get Monday Night War ratings Or attendance, or general public interest, or mainstream attention... but still lots of people are watching wrestling in a variety of ways Not nearly as many as there were a decade ago. 10 years, not 20. whether it be on youtube, streaming services, pirating videos or who knows what else. Well I don't know that I'd be touting pirating videos as a good thing given that you're a big fan of promotions like Chikara that heavily depend on people actually paying for the product. The wrestling business makes more money now than it ever has. Todd, it's perfectly fine to just say 'I understand this stuff is probably bad for the business but I enjoy watching it and let's just leave it at that' instead of saying this. WWE makes more money than it ever has, ROH probably too, but if you think wrestling across the board is making more money now than when Mexico and Japan were at their peak in addition to the promotions here doing well then you're out of your mind and there's no coming back from that. Sure there may be less total viewers than at other points, but the revenue opportunity is greater than ever. That uh...really doesn't make up for the amount of people who have just tuned out but hey I'm glad there's fans willing to drop $8k to sit in the front row at WrestleMania or whatever.
|
|
|
Post by Justin Case on Jan 8, 2018 20:17:09 GMT -5
I feel like my signature should be a picture of Cornette and/or Bill Watts now because I've finally reached the point of being a really grumpy old man and I'm not even 30 yet. LOL...I totally popped for this. You are an old soul Switch! If it's any consolation Switch, I'm an old school guy myself! Enjoy all the old time matches I find on YouTube too. Gets me excited to play Legends after watching them! 😉
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 20:17:31 GMT -5
I feel like my signature should be a picture of Cornette and/or Bill Watts now because I've finally reached the point of being a really grumpy old man and I'm not even 30 yet. LOL...I totally popped for this. You are an old soul Switch! I couldn't find one with Watts and Cornette so I'm just gonna have to go with Jimmy EDIT: Actually Ole Anderson probably better suits how I feel about pro wrestling so I'll just go with him instead.
|
|
|
Post by Justin Case on Jan 8, 2018 21:01:28 GMT -5
Ole & Gene! Dem boys were some tough hombres! 👍👍
|
|
|
Post by Tournament Master on Jan 8, 2018 21:44:27 GMT -5
Not going to go back and reply to everything @switch but from what I have witnessed in the US wrestling is bigger now than it was 10 years ago. WWE wasn't getting the viewers it gets and wasn't getting the main stream media attention and acceptance it is now. The indie wrestling scene also seems much healthier then it was at that point. Most of the indie companies I have an interest in like PWG, AAW, AIW and Beyond are also having bigger crowds than they have in recent years. Chikara isn't getting the big crowds, but that seems like a conscious effort to cut down on costs of outside guests and feature students coming from the school and pushing the studio shows and the streaming service (which I am a proud monthly paying customer for). Plus new companies keep appearing and thriving, especially those that take a different spin on the wrestling presentation and attract non-traditional fans (ie F1RST Wrestling).
I wouldn't attempt to say I know how the Mexican scene i like, so that very well may be down as a whole. Japan seems to be more focused on NJPW, with companies like Dragongate and NOAH not being what they were, but fringe companies like DDT and Stardom being more popular alternatives. The European scene is the hottest its ever been on the independent side, especially the UK. Internationally, I think there is potential to still see more growth as content because more easily accessible.
From everything I have seen I and read I just buy that the wrestling audience is suffering from where it was a couple years ago. I just think the viewing platforms and the companies are more fragmented than ever. I heard a comment on a podcast recently I liked. We are in a new Renaissance of wrestling territories and Pro Wrestling tees is the new NWA.
|
|