Power creep (card design then vs now)
Oct 1, 2020 9:02:16 GMT -5
Vanimal, Chad Olson, and 4 more like this
Post by amd on Oct 1, 2020 9:02:16 GMT -5
An interesting byproduct of being away from the game for so many years and then jumping into multiple sets at once is seeing the overall shift from how the original 2087 characters are setup vs the current sets. I'm not 100% sure which I prefer since I am bouncing between running a 2087 fed with the colored cards and catching up on current sets (dipping into Black Death at the moment). I just ran a bunch of matches for 2087 last night and it got me thinking about this more, perhaps going too meta but its interesting to see since I wasnt around for the complete shift from one style to the next. I saw a slight uptick in the double finishers and add 1 moves, and my own bootlegs from way back were all sorts of broken but that was more from my misreading of the actual card creation rules and being young, haha.
The original cards for the most part trend towards mid tier with a few standouts and then a fair amount of mid-low tier guys. This makes a lot of sense since the fed should have a decent bell curve and allows for organic story telling such as where the chronic loser gets an upset. It seems the newer cards all push into the top-mid tier and I end up with a good amount of 50-50 booking as result of the dice. More specifically, the low end of the card seems more anemic. There are cards that appear not "stacked" for sure, but they are all proficient if the dice roll in their favor. Maybe the more even field is a benefit when you are looking at it more from the booking/promoter end where I am looking more at the stat/game play perspective. Not having a clear picture of who is better allows for its own outcomes that can spin into different angles and stories.
Some of the lower tier guys in the original set have a lot of character (Vanity for example) so I root for him even though he may not be able to back it up. He is strong enough to pull off wins though and that makes him compelling to put in matches. The original Omega card is tough to get a win with but when it happens its could be a big deal or setup a good angle. Even the Space Croppers put up a good W/L record for me which I find amusing since I always pegged them as scrubs when I was younger haha.
Another interesting point is the match speed...I find the older cards trend towards longer matches since there are not as many spots for a quick lose unless you get a good combo of high roll, then pin and then the pin is high so you might roll low anyway. Compare that to the newer cards where not many have pin values where you can lose the very first time you roll. The counter point to this is the newer guys with a stacked level 3 offense where you seem to generate fatigue tokens at a quick rate so that low pin gets high quickly. Someone like Swarm who has an add1 and two finishers can lay on damage. In some cases where I am adding so many tokens I feel it borders on excessive, especially jumping back from 2087.
The LoW cards seem like a less extreme extension of the older style. Most likely driven by the fact a lot of them are based on the older style so the move sets are not meant to be complete domination. The big/tough guys have stronger offense but not unbeatable. A few guys have top tier defense and are tough to beat, and there are lots of mid tier guys to fill out the card. I have just started with these cards so dont have as much input but appreciate them being more in the 2087 style.
Reading through the thread on house rules has opened up some more perspective on dealing with a lot of this in a way that makes sense for how I play. I have been trying some of these and also correctly doing some of the moves (ie - tag finishers, tag moves). Very interesting just seeing how folks process the info and play the game since at its core its a basic system but is so flexible to allow for a variety of styles.
TL;DR : What type of card stat designs (old school/traditional, new school/powerful) do you all prefer and why?
The original cards for the most part trend towards mid tier with a few standouts and then a fair amount of mid-low tier guys. This makes a lot of sense since the fed should have a decent bell curve and allows for organic story telling such as where the chronic loser gets an upset. It seems the newer cards all push into the top-mid tier and I end up with a good amount of 50-50 booking as result of the dice. More specifically, the low end of the card seems more anemic. There are cards that appear not "stacked" for sure, but they are all proficient if the dice roll in their favor. Maybe the more even field is a benefit when you are looking at it more from the booking/promoter end where I am looking more at the stat/game play perspective. Not having a clear picture of who is better allows for its own outcomes that can spin into different angles and stories.
Some of the lower tier guys in the original set have a lot of character (Vanity for example) so I root for him even though he may not be able to back it up. He is strong enough to pull off wins though and that makes him compelling to put in matches. The original Omega card is tough to get a win with but when it happens its could be a big deal or setup a good angle. Even the Space Croppers put up a good W/L record for me which I find amusing since I always pegged them as scrubs when I was younger haha.
Another interesting point is the match speed...I find the older cards trend towards longer matches since there are not as many spots for a quick lose unless you get a good combo of high roll, then pin and then the pin is high so you might roll low anyway. Compare that to the newer cards where not many have pin values where you can lose the very first time you roll. The counter point to this is the newer guys with a stacked level 3 offense where you seem to generate fatigue tokens at a quick rate so that low pin gets high quickly. Someone like Swarm who has an add1 and two finishers can lay on damage. In some cases where I am adding so many tokens I feel it borders on excessive, especially jumping back from 2087.
The LoW cards seem like a less extreme extension of the older style. Most likely driven by the fact a lot of them are based on the older style so the move sets are not meant to be complete domination. The big/tough guys have stronger offense but not unbeatable. A few guys have top tier defense and are tough to beat, and there are lots of mid tier guys to fill out the card. I have just started with these cards so dont have as much input but appreciate them being more in the 2087 style.
Reading through the thread on house rules has opened up some more perspective on dealing with a lot of this in a way that makes sense for how I play. I have been trying some of these and also correctly doing some of the moves (ie - tag finishers, tag moves). Very interesting just seeing how folks process the info and play the game since at its core its a basic system but is so flexible to allow for a variety of styles.
TL;DR : What type of card stat designs (old school/traditional, new school/powerful) do you all prefer and why?