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Post by pikemojo on Jun 26, 2021 23:56:46 GMT -5
I know that CWFH never gets mentioned when talking about the 'best of the Indies' but what CWFH does really well is train guys to wrestle on TV. Dave is really adamant about how things look and are presented in the ring. Even I got chastised a time or two for having my back towards the camera. I've always believed that spending some time wrestling in CWFH is a great bootcamp for what TV production is like in the big leagues. Now whether the wrestlers are exciting or 'over' is another thing, but at least you'll be able to see how good or bad they are most of the time. I have not watched a TON of CWFH but I can tell that what you are saying is true based on what I have seen of the shows AND from various interviews with Dave Marquez. He views his wrestling shows as a television product with characters, storylines, etc. It is not a 60 minute show with a bunch of random matches. Compared to many other promotions, the shows are made for TV, not just filmed and put on TV.
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Post by Swarm on Jun 27, 2021 7:21:31 GMT -5
No, and that’s all I’m saying. I see a lot of very green wrestlers on TV. Botches used to be taboo, now they’re accepted almost weekly. It’s a combo of wrestlers not being ready and the promoters who sign them, hoard them and stunt their growth. Most guys in NXT should be wrestling constantly getting reps in. But they go to NXT and disappear. You’ve got to know you’re gonna get way less reps leaving the indies. But money talks. Problem is most of these people are also competitive and sitting around collecting a paycheck gets old fast. This may be a topic for another thread but I've been wondering how much the indies really help talent to develop. Sure they get their reps in but are they really getting advice from seasoned professionals? If you have a guy who keeps doing a specific move poorly, is there someone who is honest with them that maybe that move or style isn't for them? Or is it just a bunch of guys patting each other's backs? I legitimately don't know the answer to those questions but I've been thinking about them for a while. There are definitely instances where the indies helped a wrestler develop a WWE ready character but there are also many instances where bad habits/characters/ideas/moves seem to be applauded. These are some good points. Extensive indy work could end up hindering a guy more than helping him. Indy wrestling has turned into one giant spot fest w guys trying to get in as many moves as possible. I think these releases also make the “WWE Performance center” look like a failure. No true developmental system in WWE when wrestlers clearly aren’t developing.
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Post by Travis605 on Jun 27, 2021 7:39:47 GMT -5
This may be a topic for another thread but I've been wondering how much the indies really help talent to develop. Sure they get their reps in but are they really getting advice from seasoned professionals? If you have a guy who keeps doing a specific move poorly, is there someone who is honest with them that maybe that move or style isn't for them? Or is it just a bunch of guys patting each other's backs? I legitimately don't know the answer to those questions but I've been thinking about them for a while. There are definitely instances where the indies helped a wrestler develop a WWE ready character but there are also many instances where bad habits/characters/ideas/moves seem to be applauded. These are some good points. Extensive indy work could end up hindering a guy more than helping him. Indy wrestling has turned into one giant spot fest w guys trying to get in as many moves as possible. I think these releases also make the “WWE Performance center” look like a failure. No true developmental system in WWE when wrestlers clearly aren’t developing. I honestly have no desire to attend any Indy shows ever again because every match on the card is exactly the same. And I know people say “wrestling has changed, blah, blah”, but the absence of good/bad Guys. You can go back and watch older wrestling and 99% of the time, you could turn the volume down and still know their allegiance from their body language and facials. Today? Not so much (In regards to Chad and Impact pro, they may be completely different…I’m just going on from what I’ve seen) With the training (teachers, facilities, etc), the performance center has to be considered a dismal failure, where OVW, where the wwe put in a fraction of the momey, produced way more stars
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Post by Swarm on Jun 27, 2021 8:07:24 GMT -5
These are some good points. Extensive indy work could end up hindering a guy more than helping him. Indy wrestling has turned into one giant spot fest w guys trying to get in as many moves as possible. I think these releases also make the “WWE Performance center” look like a failure. No true developmental system in WWE when wrestlers clearly aren’t developing. I honestly have no desire to attend any Indy shows ever again because every match on the card is exactly the same. And I know people say “wrestling has changed, blah, blah”, but the absence of good/bad Guys. You can go back and watch older wrestling and 99% of the time, you could turn the volume down and still know their allegiance from their body language and facials. Today? Not so much (In regards to Chad and Impact pro, they may be completely different…I’m just going on from what I’ve seen) With the training (teachers, facilities, etc), the performance center has to be considered a dismal failure, where OVW, where the wwe put in a fraction of the momey, produced way more stars It’s been years but I’ve had some real fun attending some great and even not some great indy shows. Something about the live atmosphere I guess. But that was a long time ago. ROH, CHIKARA, IWC are all feds I’ve seen in person and really enjoyed. Been to a few EVOLVE shows that were like underground fight clubs the atmosphere was so dark. Good times for sure. I definitely feel like NXT killed a lot of those good vibes and wouldn’t mind an indy resurgence.
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Post by Vegas on Jun 27, 2021 11:50:28 GMT -5
No, and that’s all I’m saying. I see a lot of very green wrestlers on TV. Botches used to be taboo, now they’re accepted almost weekly. It’s a combo of wrestlers not being ready and the promoters who sign them, hoard them and stunt their growth. Most guys in NXT should be wrestling constantly getting reps in. But they go to NXT and disappear. You’ve got to know you’re gonna get way less reps leaving the indies. But money talks. Problem is most of these people are also competitive and sitting around collecting a paycheck gets old fast. This may be a topic for another thread but I've been wondering how much the indies really help talent to develop. Sure they get their reps in but are they really getting advice from seasoned professionals? If you have a guy who keeps doing a specific move poorly, is there someone who is honest with them that maybe that move or style isn't for them? Or is it just a bunch of guys patting each other's backs? I legitimately don't know the answer to those questions but I've been thinking about them for a while. There are definitely instances where the indies helped a wrestler develop a WWE ready character but there are also many instances where bad habits/characters/ideas/moves seem to be applauded. Well alot of times it can depend on when and where they are developing in the Indies as not all Indy situations are the same. For example, here in Las Vegas there is FSW. For years FSW with Michael Modest as its head trainer really did not really develop anyone. Then over time FSW has changed their trainers. For example, Jake "The Snake" Roberts lived here in Henderson, Nevada and his Snake Pit Academy was used to train FSW wrestlers. Also, the legendary trainer Tom Howard who in California trained John Cena, Samoa Joe, The Miz, Christopher Daniels and Frankie Kazarian, Chris Masters, Lisa Marie Varon, Heidenreich, etc was hired by FSW and he obviously knows how to develop wrestlers. With the change in training personnel, FSW went from developing almost nobody to recently developing: Karrion Kross (current 2 time NXT Champion, appears about to make his debut on RAW or Smackdown very soon) Zoey Stark/Lacey Ryan (during a time when it is competitive to even be on NXT each week, she is a regular on NXT each week. She is actually married to Tom Howard.) Chris Bey (former X Division Champion) Alexander Hammerstone (he is actually from Phoenix but he has been a FSW regular since 2013) Sefa Fatu (Sefa just said goodbye to FSW last weekend at the FSW Anniversary weekend shows. He is yet another recent FSW wrestler who has signed with a major promotion but he won't reveal where as he has only said he is going to "somewhere with an E" in its name.) So I just think where and when a wrestler develops on the Indies can be a factor as some places can get you more prepared than others.
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Post by Gunslinger on Jul 31, 2021 11:59:32 GMT -5
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Post by TTX on Jul 31, 2021 12:03:04 GMT -5
considering how badly they ruined every push, I'm not surprised. Time for him, Braun and Rowan to get back together.
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Post by Swarm on Jul 31, 2021 12:04:20 GMT -5
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Post by LAWraith on Jul 31, 2021 12:11:06 GMT -5
Lol @ Swarm I was thinking same thing.
Honestly put up a show against Raw right now with punk, Bryan, sting and wyatt and you have a ten time better show. And before you go hold on a minute kid they might not be the best wrestlers. Okay but they are B+ or B- with creativity and a wrestling mind. That is better than a top guy who's been around for 10+ years with a creative writer telling him to say I'm gonna kick your behind real good.
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Post by Gunslinger on Jul 31, 2021 12:13:00 GMT -5
I wonder if they're trying to cut expenses to get ready to sell the company. Having half of the talent in the United States under contract is bound to be pricey.
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