WMania 28 On-going thread

[offspring515]

DB losing in 18 seconds has NOTHING to do with Vince hating Indy guys. If you hate a guy you don't put your second biggest title on him and let him co-main event ppv shows. If you HATE a guy you don't even let him get a WM payday.

DB won the title by screwing over Big Show in a quick match, and he lost it the same way. It was a heel getting his comeuppance and it worked fine.

[Mike M]

Apr 2, 2012 0:46:36 GMT -5 Payback said:

Very underwhelming card with a few nice spots mixed in.

The good
HHH-UT. Started off a bit on the slow side but the 2nd half and finish of the match was good. I liked seeing the 3 guys all walk out together and hug at the top of the ramp. Hopefully that's the last we see of any of them. Will never have a better ending than we got tonight.

Y2J - Punk. Good match but not great. I liked the psychology of this match as Jericho really worked over Punk's back the entire time. Good ending sequence.

Cena's new shirt - love the Boston Celtics look to it. Totally fitting for a wrestler from Massachusetts.



The average/so-so
Kane - Orton - This match was better than I thought it was going to be as I thought these 2 guys would have styles that wouldn't mesh well but I thought both guys did a respectable job.

Team Johnny - Team Teddy - For having 12 guys in 1 match I thought it was probably as good as we could see from these guys. Even though I know it's coming I enjoy the finisher after finisher sequence. Always intriguing to see who will be the last one standing and who gets pinned. Kinda shocked to see Zach get the pin but I liked Eve going full heel afterwards.

Big Show - Cody Rhodes - Nice to see an I-C title defense on Mania again. Cool to see Big Show finally get a big win at Mania in a singles match and how he showed emotion for winning the belt. Gotta give Cody some credit for taking a spear to the balls by a 450 lb guy.



The bad
Daniel Bryan - Sheamus - No excuse for this. I'm all for Bryan losing if that's what they wanted cuz DB has won in some bastrdly ways and has been mean on air to AJ but these guys deserved to put on a match considering they were bumped from the broadcast last year. Daniel Bryan has been working for 10 yrs to get on WM and he gets hit with 1 move and is pinned in 10 seconds? Total BS. Really started the card off with a bad taste in my mouth.

Diva's Tag match - This match should have never been on the show. It served no purpose. The fact that these chicks got WAY more airtime than Brayn and Sheamus makes me sick. f WWE for having these stupid celebs being in matches. Nobody cared that Maria was in this match. If I were in charge of the Diva's (and could book matches for them), I'd have the Diva's title defended on Mania each year and say that whoever the 2 best Divas in the ring each year get the match. Gotta motivate these models to get better in the ring. KK looks like she's in slow motion every match.

MGK - Flo Rida - f these people, get off my wrestling show. I didn't mind when musical groups would play the theme song of the wrestler(s) as they went to the ring. I know Vince tries to incorporate as much mainstream stuff as he can each year but I've had enough of these things. Flo Rida got more airtime than DB-Sheamus. Didn't care for Brodus' momma and the bridge club. The only saving grace about that is at least Brodus got a spot on the show. It would've been better if he'd had a match and squashed someone though. He would've gotten over just as much.

Mick Foley. Please go far far far far away and never allow yourself to get on a wrestling show again. You wrestled in the 80s. It's 2012, you've had your time. Go away. Shame on Vince for allowing this piece of crap (who talked shit about WWE when he left after Vince made him a star) to be on the biggest show of the year. Mick Foley is not funny, never has been funny, never will be funny.

Rock - Cena - Rock wins even though he only wrestled twice in the past year and he's obviously lost a step in speed and a few steps in strength even though he was never a power wrestler. Rock disgusts me. Everything Cena said about him was true. He walks away from the business then comes back and gets put into the main event of WM. I can understand that as he's a huge star but he did not deserve to beat John Cena.


Overall rating 6 out of 10. Will not be buying this disc when it comes out. Makes 2 in a row after I have purchased the 1st 26 WM's. Needs more wrestling, less backstage crap and celebs.

I agree with most of "The Good" section, but I liked the Punk-Jericho match more than you did.

As for "the Bad", I think that I'm a little more forgiving than you. Regarding the celebrity cameos (I include Foley in this since he had a non-wrestling role in the show), they have really been a staple of WM since the beginning (think Bob Uecker, Billy Martin, Liberace, Mary Hart, etc). WWE went away from it at times, but it's something that I enjoy unless it takes away from something in the ring. I wasn't thrilled with Seamus-DB, but my brother noticed that DB's elbow didn't look right before the match. It is possible that he was injured and the squash was put on to cover the injury (and avoid cancelling a title match). If it's just a storyline squash, then I'll reserve judgement until I see where it goes, but I hope that it's a good reason.

I really loved the feel of the Cena-Rock match. The crowd was electric. It wasn't quite Rock-Hogan, but it was close and the match itself was better. I really thought Cena would go over, but that was the one match of the night that I really had no feel for which way it would go.

At the end of the day, I was thoroughly entertained. I'd give it about 7 or 8 stars.

[Mike M]

Apr 2, 2012 9:19:18 GMT -5 offspring515 said:

DB losing in 18 seconds has NOTHING to do with Vince hating Indy guys. If you hate a guy you don't put your second biggest title on him and let him co-main event ppv shows. If you HATE a guy you don't even let him get a WM payday.

DB won the title by screwing over Big Show in a quick match, and he lost it the same way. It was a heel getting his comeuppance and it worked fine.

Didn't think about the DB loss that way, but it's true.

As for Vince hating indy guys, I agree. Plus, throw in CM Punk going over in the WWE title match and I don't see how anyone can make that statement.

[swarm]

Shit show. I can honestly say that was the worst Wrestlemania I have ever watched, and WM1 was the first wrestling show of any kind I ever saw.

Sheamus - Daniel Bryan was like your favorite football team finally making the Super Bowl then on the very first play your QB gets annihilated, fumbles and the opponent's run it in for a TD.

I was happy Kane won but the match was nothing I've haven't seen on RAW a thousand times and Orton looked liked he was phoning it in. You can't blame him. He was pissed about his Mania slot last year vs. Punk and that was the 4th match on the show. This year he's basically gets the curtain jerker seeing as how Sheamus v DB wasn't even really a match. And they booked him to lose. If you didn't watch WWE regularly you'd never know Orton is supposed to be a huge superstar based on last night.

Taker vs. HHH was sweet. I wonder if that's it for all 3. Put HHH in a suit, whatever. But no more matches. Taker must be done at 20-0 although I'll take 21-0 only if they do Cena vs. Taker.

I could see Cena coming out tonight on RAW and challenge the Undertaker for next year's Mania. After losing to Rock I can see Cena doing something drastic like that to try and redeem his legacy.

Punk vs. Jericho was good not great. Reminded me of a classic I-C Title match. Man has wrestling changed. Punk is not WWE Title material. I love him but he isn't. Back in the day he would have made a hell of a I-C champion legend though.

The 10 man annoyed me. One big bragging rights impostor. The wrestlers work hard all year and at the biggest card of the year they come out like clones in gay ass t-shirts to lame-o RAW and SD music? That's the best you can do for your guys? Whatever. Guess you need time for grovel aka Mick Foley and the guy from Deadliest Catch and a bunch of pop stars. And to think they scrapped MITB for this garbage.

Way too many singers, celebrities, twitter, videos, singers, dancers and all that total bullshit. It's obvious to me Vince is more interested in being completely intertwined/accepted by mass-media than putting on good wrestling (used to be this was just for RAW and the PPV's still had wrestling). When mother fing Flo-Rida gets more time than Daniel Bryan you can kiss my ass. By the time I realized Brodus wasn't actually wrestling I was disgusted.

Rock didn't deserve to win. Dude has forgotten on how to take bumps, and at one point I thought Cena might kill him in the ring for real. Rock looked slow, gassed, awkward and weak. He couldn't keep up with cena at all. In the end I didn't buy at all that Cena was hurt. Hell, he spent half the match standing around waiting for the Rock to get up off the mat.

Not going to stop watching wrestling or anything over this but god damn, what a disaster. 5/10 at best. Nothing really special at all. No memorable entrances, outfits (other than new cena shirt), returns, even matches. Can't call even one match on this show amazing.

If we get Cena challenging Taker for Mania 29 and Brock coming back tonight, maybe they can turn this shit around.

[Phoenix]

looked like a really good card...how'd the manage to mess that up?
dancing 'mamas'? REALLY? Can't they do that on RAW? People don't put that hard earned money down on a PPV to see Broadus dancing.
DB-Sheamus reminds me of Ultimate Warrior-Honky Tonk Man. I mean, i can see that kind of thing, but at WrestleMania...and considering Bryan is a really good wrestler, i expect a little more.
Also seems strange mostly all babyfaces went over. Both World Champs are Babyfaces now. Show won, Kelly Kelly even won.
i think i'm less upset by individual matches, than the overall show.
you might be right about Punk , Swarm. He was hot based on one big rant last summer, but he can't necessarily keep it up week after week.
And Rock going over...well i still kind of feel if Cena had gone over it might have bitten him in the ass more than anything. Rock isn't wrestling in years, he should put over the younger guy...except if Cena wins a large section of the audience will just hate him even more. What interests me is who's call was it? Rock's? Vince's? We won't know that for a long time probably, but i'd love to know.

[Vidtek]

OK, I guess I'm just not a jaded wrestling fan or something because I really liked last nights show.
- Saw it at the local Buffalo Wild Wings, so the crowd was hyped.

- D Bry goes down quick was great IMO. AJ cost him the title, he's been the chicken-sh** heel for a while and now Sheamus is champ. DO you really think that's the end of this?

- Orton/Kane ending surprised me, but I was happy. I thought they did a good job with it.

- The divas tag match...yeah that I hated, but I knew I was going to, so I guess the WWE gave me exactly what I was expecting.

- Show/Rhodes went just like I thought it would. Poor Cody though, it can't be good taking a Big Show to the balls...

- The Team Teddy/Team Johnny match was a fun multi-man match. Yes, they hit every spot that you usually get in one of those, but we did have Mark Henry tossing Hornswoggle down like a paper cup was nice. And The Miz getting the pin over that overhyped Zack Ryder was Awesome cause there was this one kid in the restaurant that looked like he might cry. Then Eve kicked Zack in the nuts and I lost it. Funniest moment of the night, couldn't have happened to a better loser.

- Hell in a Cell...THAT'S HOW YOU DO RING PSYCHOLOGY! That match felt like one of those men might not walk out. Seeing Shawn in the corner terrified after those late near falls was great. The Undertaker telling him not to stop the match. THOSE BRUISES! The defeated fall of Hunter's head when he got stopped going for his last hammer shot. That was the end of an era, because no one on the roster now can TELL A STORY like that anymore. And it was glorious.

- Punk/Jericho was a little underwhelming I will admit, but I attribute that to the last minute "Punk loses the title by DQ" stipulation. But the near falls were well placed and the finish was good. Now I am interested in what Jericho will do next.

- Cena vs The Rock...I thought it was a great match. Sure The Rock couldn't quite go like he used to, but Cena could never wrestle so that's not an issue. I was ready for Cena to win. I didn't want him to, but I was ready for it. That same kid who was going to cry a The Miz winning kept cheering for Cena despite the rest of the fans being clearly behind The Rock, so you can imagine the huge pop when Rock went over! And I'm glad he did.

- I liked Clay and the dancing mamas. It was cute, funny, and allowed my "date" for the night to go to the ladies room without missing anything. See, that's the kind of thing people fail to see for some reason. A PPV has no comercials. They have to allow the fans time to get drinks or use the bathroom, so they play video packages, have celebrity backs stage segements (not sure how famous that Deadliest Catch guy is, but OK), and get musicians to play to let fans settle down before the next match. And while I'm at it the Bryan/Sheamus match wasn't short in order to give us Flo Rida and dancing mamas, it was short to give us more Hell in a Cell, to give us a longer Punk/Jericho match. not every match on the card can be a 20-30 minute classic.
Overall from this fan 9/10, but only because Hornswoggle got a spot even if it did end in him tossed aside like the trash he is.

[Big Bri]

I give it a 6/10. A little better than last year but not by much.

I felt bad for Daniel Bryan getting screwed like that but it was kind of a cool way to get the crowd excited at the beginning of the night with a “Holy Shoot” kind of moment, and hey, Bryan is now in the record books one way or another. It will always be a “WM Moment”. I noticed Bryan’s elbow too Mike. Ouch.

Kane-Orton = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Also, why did Kane win? I think Orton must've pissed somebody off he shouldn't have.

Divas = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ but you knew it would be, so it’s hard to be disappointed here.

Yes, Foley thinks he’s 50X funnier than he actually is. He’s his own biggest fan. I agree with Payback here. Go the f away. Hey, at least he wasn't in a match.

UT-HHH: Match of the night by far (just like last year). I hate special refs so I was ticked when they announced HBK’s involvement. While he did get involved a little bit, it wasn’t overkill like I was expecting so that was a relief. Also, I thought Taker looked like Darth Vader after he was unmasked by Luke. Creepy but in an awesome way. Taker looked a little flabby too but still like one tough S.O.B. Man did he take a beating! Did you see all the welts on his back? Gotta give HHH some credit here too for a great performance.

I loved the end with Taker stepping on the sledgehammer and shaking his head “no” with that shitty grin on his face. Awesome! I liked the end too with all 3 walking out together. Very cool.

Cody-Show: Complete B.S. I’m not a Cody fan but he should’ve won. What does Big Slow really gain here? Nothing. 25 years after Steamboat-Savage we get THIS for an IC Title Match at WM. Oh how we have fallen.

Punk-Jericho: Good match but I thought it’d be better. Stupid for them to add the DQ stip right before the match. Also, it was nice to see Jericho break a sweat for once. I don’t think he’s had to work that hard in a match in about a decade. So glad to see Jericho tap. I can’t stand him. Totally full of himself and has let success go straight to his head.

Also, doesn’t Vince have some kind of say in these guys’ attire for the night? Punk & Jericho looked like they were almost tag team partners!

Clay’s segment was pretty funny. They had to kill time somehow before the main event. I thought maybe they’d have Bryan enact his rematch clause but have Sheamus beat him again (in a 5-10 minute match though). Guess not.

I liked MGK (AKA an apparent heroin addict, LOL) & Flo-Rida. I thought it added to the pageantry of the event. Chewey, I don’t see what you mean about Flo-Rida. He looked to be in better shape than half the roster.

Rock-Cena: ARE YOU FLIPPING KIDDING ME!?!?!?!?!?!? I’m no Cena fan at all but he deserved to win. This was complete B.S. On top of that, Rock looked bad in the ring. Sloppy as shit. You’d think they would’ve rehearsed the match a few times with the magnitude of it but it didn’t look like they did. After a 1-year build THAT’S the kind of ring work we get from The Rock? It’s pretty sad when Cena has to carry someone, and I gotta pat Cena on the back for his efforts in that respect. Well done.

On another note, was it just me or did it look like they were potato-ing the hell out of each other? That was a nice touch to an otherwise badly worked match.

I could accept Rock winning through a schmaz so Cena could save face but CLEAN? Yes, one could argue that it was not his call, but my guess is that it was one of his demands of the agreement to come back ("Yeah Vince, give me $20 million, promote my new movie, and put me over Cena clean at WM and you've got a deal.")

I'm ticked right now, but am willing to wait to see how this plays out on RAW tonight to make a final call.

[gamemaster81]

For the amount of crap on that show there was alot to like for me anyways.

The Goods
-Rock/Cena: It was good for me. I got a whole thread talking about it but I liked it.
-Punk/Jericho: Did they set the world on fire? Nope did they have a pretty great match? Yep. It was my favorite match of the night but I wouldnt argue with...
-HHH/Undertaker Hell in a Cell: This was great story telling and adding JR to the mix was the cherry. I dont really think the cell was needed match wise but it added to the importance of the story.
The three main events delivered for me but there was the undercard that tried hard to stink up the place.

The Bads
-Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus: This was not the way you start the biggest card of your year. I dont care how they spin it both of these guys deserved better than a 15 second squash. Way to take a dump on your championship and the Royal Rumble. Why get excited if the winner is going to be curtain jerking at Mania? Im happy they were on the card but jeez I hope Bryan was injured or something because theirs no defending this.
-Team Johnny vs Team Teddy- I like some of the workers in this but stopped caring about GM's along time ago. Couldnt wait for it to end. On paper a Money in the Bank match would be overkill on this card but man did I miss it watching this match.
-Randy Orton/Kane: I like Kane but Randy does nothing for me. The match was ok but felt like an average Smackdown main event.
-Diva Tag: Should have been a Title match between Beth and Kharma(Eve or Kelly Kelly or whoever)

Ugly
All of the dancing, behind the scenes comedy and performances. What happened to Mean Gene and interviews of before and after the big match in front of a WWE sign? This card could have used some of that.
Big Show vs Cody Rhodes: I dont know if I liked this match or not. I like Cody but hate Show. Something about Show wrestling for the I-C title didnt seem right to me. Im glad there was an I-C title match on the card but still they could have swapped Show and Ryder and it would have been more fun. Whatever good for Cody being on the show. He had a great run.



And with all of that some how I still went home happy. Somebody call my momma! Ugh.....

[Vegas]

Based on the great lineup on paper going into yesterday, Wrestlemania 28 underperformed IMO.

The second try for Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan, last year there was talk it might steal the show. Steal the show? It was not even on the show last year. This year the only thing that "match" last night might have stolen was your money. Daniel Bryan still has not really wrestled a Wrestlemania match. It is too bad because I truly believe Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan could be a great Wrestlemania match if it was actually allowed to happen.

To complete the first hour, Kane vs Orton, Cody Rhodes vs Big Show, and the divas tag match were nothing overly special which IMO made the Sheamus-Daniel Bryan 18 second match to open this show even more of a letdown.

I really liked the action in the HIAC match and HBK superkicking the Undertaker into a Triple H pedigree will probably be one of my favorite wrestling moments of the year. But I personally didn't care for HBK's referee. I have always felt that HBK as a wrestler tended to oversell things and IMO he did so again last night as a referee even if he was supposed to be conflicted.

The last half of the show was definitely much better than the first half, but I still overall give this show a grade of B- and I was hoping for an A level show. Along with the frustrations with trying to watch the ROH IPPVs with their technical issues, this Wrestlemania weekend was disappointing.

[Tournament Master]

As usual I enjoyed Mania. It wasn't as good as I hoped, but not as atrocious as others have written IMO. I watched the event at Miami Mike's sports bar (the site of the Snooki-Laycool bar fight from last Wrestlemania). Event had a signing with Ashley Massaro, which was completely random.

One of these days we'll get the Daniel Bryan-Sheamus match we keep getting promised...one of these days. I guess it gives Bryan an out by losing on a fluke and being distracted by AJ. But surely disappointing.

Really surprised by Kane winning...the most surprising thing all night.

Big Show winning I can live with. Gets Big Show his Mania win and gets the IC belt off Cody, so he can go on to bigger feuds.

Divas' tag match was horrible...but then again it usually is. I guess it served its point whatever that was.

HIAC was match of the night, as expected. I wasn't sure what HBK would bring to the match, but I thought his expressions and actions added a ton. The SCM to Pedigree spot was the most believable false finish in a Taker match in years. I feel we'll see Taker again next Mania and at 30.

Once I saw Eve come out with Ryder, I knew she was going to cost him the match. Sure it wasn't as good as a MITB match, but was decent and got a Mania payday for guys, so I'm cool with it.

Punk-Jericho were in a tough spot, as everyone was expecting a classic that just couldn't be lived up to. I thought it was a really good match, with an awesome ending sequence. Not sure where this feud is going now.

I love Brodus Clay, so I enjoyed his spot. I at first cringed when the 1 mama came out, but instantly loved it when all the dancing mamas came out.

Totally lost interest in the rap concert like most people. I'm guessing Diddy must be trying to push this Machine Gun Kelly kid, because I haven't heard of anyone who has heard of this skinny kid. The WWE concerts are just something you have to put up with I guess...but it did kill the main event buildup for me.

For most of the year I was convinced Cena would win, but the last week or so I changed my mind and thought they'd put the Rock over and they did. Wasn't sure how wise it was to put him over clean, but it could lead to something good if it pushes Cena further over the edge. The match itself was reminiscent of the 80's with the number of rest holds. Rock looked OK, but I think that was more Cena making him look good.

Overall a 7 out of 10, on a card that should have been a 9 out of 10. Hoping for more when I am at Mania NY/NJ next year.