Discussion of Secondary titles...do you need them?

[stu]

(NOTE: I have no idea as to the perfect place for this thread, so thought the "Classic" section in Real World Pro Wrestling was as good a place as any).

If wrestling was indeed "real"...i.e., no pre-determined finishes...would you really need secondary titles?

In wrestling, we all know secondary titles are used to elevate mid-card wrestlers, or give a push to a young star on the rise. Now, sometimes, they seem to exist as just another title, and Main Event stars compete for them too. But, it seems like most often, wrestlers are slotted...Main Eventer's go for the "World" Title, and mid-carders go for the Secondary title.

To me, this slotting is both good and bad. Good, in that mid-carders have a title they can realistically attain in the pre-determined world of pro wrestling. Bad, in that wrestlers get "stuck", for lack of a better word, in their position on the card, sometimes only seen as secondary-title contenders.

To use boxing as an analogy...and not today's boxing, which is an absolute alphabet-soup mess, but boxing of the past...in the past, sometimes you'd see a mid-carder challenge for the World Title. This created fun...and sometimes great...match-ups. Witness Chuck Wepner vs. Muhammad Ali. Heck, that spawned the entire Rocky series! If Wepner were "doomed" or slotted as a mid-carder only, he'd only be able to compete for whatever secondary title there was in the Heavyweight division.

I know using boxing as an analogy is not perfect, but its at least more (ahem... ) of a "real" sport insomuch as the outcomes are not (again...ahem!) pre-determined, versus wrestling. But, you get the gist.

More and more, I'm giving World title shots to midcarders that a) interest me b) get on a winning streak and deserve it, or c) both a and b. If Vanity wins the GWF World Title, well then so be it. Yes, I want to reserve, at least most of the time, the World Title for Main Event caliber wrestlers, but to not mix in midcarders now and then seems limiting to me.

I'm just curious to hear what others have to say on the subject. Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts. And, Happy Thanksgiving folks!

-Stu

[markslayer]

Good topic Stu....

I use the Secondary Titles for two things in my feds

1. Its a way to work mid and low card wrestlers into the mix and give them something to feud over. I think it keeps my interest in them strong, plus i have had some of the best matches with this type of wrestler.

2. Sometimes when a low to mid card guy gets a secondary title and he gets "Hot" it paves the way for a top of the card push (Sort of a stepping stone if you will). I try not to have the top stars fight for the secondary titles unless the go "cold" and it makes sense to do so. Awhile back Harley Race went ICE COLD for me and it relegated him to "mid Card" status, and he used a US Title reign to get him back on track.

So i think is a great tool to use. In my newest fed i have 3 secondary titles, US Title, US Tag and World TV Title. We will see how that plays out.

[cotguy130]

I love the idea of mid-carders challenging for the world title. It keeps things spiced up, so to speak, so I completely concur with the way you run things, Stu. I try to do it myself. What I find happens to me, however, is that mid-carders can rarely keep it long, often losing the rematch or 1st defense. I like my main title history to be relatively clean with long-ish reigns, and mid-carders in the main title scene often can mess this up. Of course, this can happen with main eventers too. I once abandoned a fairly young fed early on because the guy who won the opening title tourney lost it on his first defense, and he and that wrestler traded back and forth 8 times before one of them beat the other back-to-back. That was when there was an auto-rematch for every loss. I've since dropped that or altered it.

All that is to say that while I do like mid-carders in the main title mix, I think secondary titles in pro wrestling are essential to maintain interest in those mid-carders if they aren't in the main mix.

[stu]

That used to bother me a bit too cotguy, as I too prefer longer title reigns. But...I'm kind of getting over it now. I tend to accept if a midcarder wins the World strap that chances are good its not going to be a long title reign. Then, if somehow he defends the strap successfully a few times, its a pleasant surprise.

Thanks for the input folks, hopefully we can keep the discussion going!

[Deleted]

I think, even if wrestling were "real," there would still be a need for secondary titles. There will always be people who just can't compete with others--a distinction in level. No one thinks the Jamestown Community College basketball team, even if they have a great season, is going to beat the L.A. Lakers. Maybe the Golden State Warriors.

Having said that, secondary titles might not be as arbitrary as they are currently. Maybe distinguished via weight class, or years in the sport, or something.

[jmello]

Not delving too much into this but I also use the secondary title at times to make an old main eventer interesting. Giving him one last shot at glory against the young up-and-comers.

Secondary titles serve purpose if used correctly and they allow young wrestlers to develop into household names without feeding them to the more elite too early. Granted the secondary titles are usually used incorrectly these days, but had it not been for the IC title would anyone have taken Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels as a World title contender had their skills not have gotten displayed for such a long amount of time at the IC level?

[maddog1981]

I think secondary titles work.

Look at the IC Title back before they ruined it in the late 90s. It was there to give future main eventers test runs with a championship and it also served as being the height of achievement for a mid-carder.

I also liked the U.S. Championship in Crockett and WCW especially when they played up the fact that they were an automatic No. 1 Contender for the World Title.

[fantasyfilmsman]

Secondaries work great. My hardcore belt works wonders as its the hardest to defend and every match is a special match. Again like the heyday the IC title used to mean things. Great names have had runs with the belt. Even today if belts are handle appropriatly they can really get interest or let you see who has the charisma to run up the ladder and carry the main event.