So, now that the ROH 6-pack is out...

[E-Ternal]

As much as I'd like to focus on the GWF the DGUSA does have some solid guys who I'd like to have for my CHIKARA or ROH feds.

[Deleted]

At that point though, why not just call it an Evolve set?

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2013 23:50:38 GMT -5 @switchfoot said:

At that point though, why not just call it an Evolve set?

Um. Okay.

So, now that the ROH 6-pack is out and we have the awesome second set for CWFH, when does work start on the EVOLVE set?

I don't think the name really matters, in the end. We are a hungry lot, and we want our sets. I know we have a jillion bootlegs out there, but they are by a variety of authors, of varying quality, and widely disparate power levels.

The appeal, to me, of these insular Chikara, ROH, CWFH, and CZW sets is that they are developed by a discrete team, so one member can reign in the other if he/she goes off the rails, but resulting in consistency, and with input from the promotion, we know that the cards represent THEIR vision for their product, not just one or two guys who are fans, who create their guys in a vacuum, with no context for the character's place in a particular promotion, or among a group of, say, 24 wrestlers to make a fed.

I have the same problem myself. I like tough, submission-based wrestlers, so if I am bootlegging William Regal and Eddie Guerrero, I am going to want to make Regal better. That's when the other guy on the team steps in and says, "You should probably adjust this here, here, and here...Guerrero had more successful title runs across promotions." So my bias gets evened out. Then, as Swarm pointed out, if the fed says "Hey, we're going to be pushing Regal really hard next year," then I know to crank him up a bit.

[Deleted]

I'm just saying if there's not going to be guys from Dragon Gate and all the dudes actively compete in Evolve anyway, why not just do it as an Evolve set? It's not like it's going to effect the stats at all given that they're, you know, the same promotion anyway.

Jun 26, 2013 0:23:24 GMT -5 @heritage said:

The appeal, to me, of these insular Chikara, ROH, CWFH, and CZW sets is that they are developed by a discrete team, so one member can reign in the other if he/she goes off the rails, but resulting in consistency, and with input from the promotion, we know that the cards represent THEIR vision for their product, not just one or two guys who are fans, who create their guys in a vacuum, with no context for the character's place in a particular promotion, or among a group of, say, 24 wrestlers to make a fed.

I can't help but feel like this is a shot at someone. Probably isn't, but that's how it came off when I read it.

As for the stats on Taven, if they're the same ones that Swarm and I had a few weeks out, it has nothing to do with inside info. Taven was supposed to be (along with Bobby Fish if memory serves) the best card in this expansion because he's on fire right now.

[Deleted]

It wasn't meant as a shot at all, just an observation that it's hard to make balanced bootlegs in a vacuum, and someone's prejudices can get in the way. But I apologize if anyone took it that way.

When you and Swarm work together on a set, with input from the promoion, that gives it more legitimacy (in my mind) than someone who just watches a ton of mtches and makes bootlegs of their favorite guys. Because they are their favorites, they may be inclined to make them more powerful than they should be based on actual card position or historical performance. I admitted to doing it myself: my William Regal would probably be on par with, say, Sting. That's an example of a badly-done bootleg (or set of bootlegs, if I ws to make 10 more).

Here's an example of a good set: the 3XW cards. They are statted up the way the belong within the universe of 3XW, but not beyond. Recognizing that they are statting out the pecking order in a small pond, they issued conversion rules for the cards if they get translated into a bigger pond, like ROH. I use Mark Sterling in HCW--he is about where he should be, after the conversion. Before the conversion, he'd be conteding against Steen or Davey Richards for top spots, and that's probably not appropriate at this stage of his career.

As for Matt Taven--I didn't necessarily think that ROH told you to make him the best in the set; it's obvious he should be, based on his accomplishments vs. the other five guys at this point. (Whitmer's past accomplishments notwithstanding, obviously.) But Swarm said, for example, that Prince Nana was taken off the table early, because ROH was phasing him out. And IIRC, he also said that he got input from CHIKARA as to where each card should be in the pecking order/power level.

So again, sorry if it seemed like I was attacking someone; if you personally felt attacked, then I doubly apologize, because I as trying to pay you a compliment.

[Deleted]

Oh, and your point about Evolve is on target, too. I don't really separate the two promotions in my head, because they have so much roster overlap, including some of the Japanese guys according to the sites I've looked at (which may be wrong).

So, yeah--call it DragonGate or Evolve...like I said, the name isn't important to us (or at least, to me) so much as getting the cards (or a pdf) in my hands, done by the guys who do the other cards I use, so I have greater confidence in how fair they are.