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Post by Vegas on Sept 9, 2018 14:31:06 GMT -5
King Kong Bundy does have deathjump, through (ch G), on both his official black and white and official color LOW cards. I understand why some would think of leaving the deathjump off certain wrestlers but technically all 4 charts generally must be accounted for on a wrestler's offense (although apparently some of the vintage LOW wrestlers are exceptions.) |
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Post by Vegas on Sept 9, 2018 14:36:02 GMT -5
yes but other than one wrestler (George Hackenschmidt which was likely an oversight) none of the vintage guys have it. I mean you can put it on the card. It won't break a card either way but with some of the bigger guys it's not there..for instance Man-Mountain and Giant Azuma. It is not really a big deal, but Abdullah the Butcher is of course neither a vintage wrestler or a COTG wrestler.  In terms of time period, I would instead compare Abdullah the Butcher to someone like King Kong Bundy or Blackjack Mulligan and both have the deathjump accounted for through the choice charts so I think an official Abdullah the Butcher card would have one too. |
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Post by Justin Case on Sept 9, 2018 15:38:57 GMT -5
That is why the game has (ch G) or (ch H) or a (c) on the cards. "choice". Roll up or choose the move. Stats wise, from my POV, it's there to be fair. If one has it, it all should have it. Then there's no room to argue if everyone gets the same.
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Post by Slymm on Sept 9, 2018 21:49:22 GMT -5
On 'out of the ring' rolls, I don't always assume the opponent was THROWN out of the ring anyways. When it makes sense, I envision the opponent being sent out via a dropkick or clothesline or something like that. As far as deathjump situations, I would prefer all cards at least have the option, whether they actually ever climbed to the top rope or not. (ch G) and (ch H) allow you to choose the alternate move so just use that one if deathjump doesn't fit the wrestler. And yes, you should be using the Choice Situations chart  |
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Post by Pete on Sept 9, 2018 23:33:59 GMT -5
I know I'm in the minority on this, but I feel like there was a sweet spot in the 2090s and 2100s where card stats were more diversified and thus more interesting--you could have semi-major players like Pegasus with pins of 8 (5), and some guys with no deathjumps or even two deathjumps (Rising Sun comes to mind as a guy who had both a deathjump and either a ch G or H). I feel like if there's a justifiable reason for breaking a card rule, then not only can it be "broken," it should be.
When I wrote a card for Johnny Saint way back in the day for my International Legends bootlegs, I left off "out of the ring"--same precedent as Salvation and Archon before him. Saint pretty much *never* fouled and was never in any danger of getting disqualified. Kent Walton on commentary would react with shock and amazement if a villain even pushed him to the point of getting a public warning. Guys like Karl Gotch would be similar. I'd rather let common sense override the rules rather than being a slave to the rules.
For Abby specifically...he did enough stuff off the second rope (usually using it as a springboard to deliver headbutts, though I know there's a pic or screen grab of his younger days in Australia where he's doing the elbow off the second turnbuckle) that I'd probably give him a ch G. But for a guy like Happy Humphrey or Giant Haystacks, guys who were truly immobile, no.
(Off the subject, but why DO the Chart Situations have two different choices for Deathjump and none for Out of the Ring? I asked Tom at a GCon some years ago and he had no recollection.)
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Post by TTX on Sept 10, 2018 5:05:16 GMT -5
no clue but originally I've heard, out of the ring was an option on the choice charts. I believe it's why certain wrestlers had it on their card with no out of the ring (like Thantos)
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Post by justme on Sept 10, 2018 12:41:59 GMT -5
I know I'm in the minority on this, but I feel like there was a sweet spot in the 2090s and 2100s where card stats were more diversified and thus more interesting--you could have semi-major players like Pegasus with pins of 8 (5), and some guys with no deathjumps or even two deathjumps (Rising Sun comes to mind as a guy who had both a deathjump and either a ch G or H). I feel like if there's a justifiable reason for breaking a card rule, then not only can it be "broken," it should be. When I wrote a card for Johnny Saint way back in the day for my International Legends bootlegs, I left off "out of the ring"--same precedent as Salvation and Archon before him. Saint pretty much *never* fouled and was never in any danger of getting disqualified. Kent Walton on commentary would react with shock and amazement if a villain even pushed him to the point of getting a public warning. Guys like Karl Gotch would be similar. I'd rather let common sense override the rules rather than being a slave to the rules. For Abby specifically...he did enough stuff off the second rope (usually using it as a springboard to deliver headbutts, though I know there's a pic or screen grab of his younger days in Australia where he's doing the elbow off the second turnbuckle) that I'd probably give him a ch G. But for a guy like Happy Humphrey or Giant Haystacks, guys who were truly immobile, no. This is really well put and honestly it was the disappearing of that particular era of the GWF (as well as the introduction of the LOW) that basically concluded my time as a GWF promoter. And at times in the Indie universe especially (to a lesser degree in LOW, but honestly not as much), it can feel like too many of the talents are put through an assembly line and spit out the other end. And with only 15 actual move slots to work with, I understand how it happens and struggle with it myself, but it is what i try hardest to avoid. I also chuckle a bit that some people are so stringent on the rules, yet love the mechanics (which are often exactly there to change or break a rule). And believe me (or just look at my boots, LOL) I love me some mechanics as well!! I have nothing against those that need stringent and uncompromising rules to be able to play, and if that is the case, I honestly suggest only using about 1/2 my boots, lol! But I truly want my cards to reflect more how they were, not how they might have been and to be realistic... Realistic for me, anyways. And as always, feel free to swipe the art and make your own boots, but my big men and vintage guys for the most part won't have deathjumps, because they didn't. And while i understand the argument for Abby specifically because he did use the bottom and occasionally 2nd rope, to me the deathjump is very much the top (even the chart descriptions would back that up it seems), so that is my criteria. No one is required to use my boots, are free to tweak and adjust them to fit your style or to play them as is. I make these for my enjoyment and to enhance my play time, and to fill in the blanks of people I "need" for the feds I run. I share them primarily because the small handful of people that normally get access to seeing my full run of boots ask me to. Anywho, that's my take and my story, lol... and as a side note, Pete... I LOVED your old International Legends boots!!! Always wondered why you didn't make more, you actually were one of my early inspirations for doing boots and digging into more and more unknown and obscure people, so thank you!! |
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Post by Pete on Sept 10, 2018 18:54:39 GMT -5
Thank you! International Legends may see a revival yet, but the rise of all-color has sort of put a dent in my releasing cards, until I figure out a way to put a color template together.
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Post by Blehschmidt on Sept 10, 2018 19:05:33 GMT -5
Any word on when that Buzz Sawyer will be ready? I wanna go get Abby printed, but I figure I should wait for the Mad Dog!!!
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Post by MHardcore on Sept 10, 2018 21:00:03 GMT -5
Any word on when that Buzz Sawyer will be ready? I wanna go get Abby printed, but I figure I should wait for the Mad Dog!!! Buzz is up on his other site |
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In terms of time period, I would instead compare Abdullah the Butcher to someone like King Kong Bundy or Blackjack Mulligan and both have the deathjump accounted for through the choice charts so I think an official Abdullah the Butcher card would have one too. 
