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Post by iowaoaks on Nov 24, 2020 22:54:21 GMT -5
Interesting discussion.
My CoTG is very, very much "shades of grey." I can't believe that there is anyone who is 100% face or 100% heal. Is Star Warrior not just a shade, one way or the other, of Star Slayer or Avenging Warrior?
(Heck, Thantos is the leader of my lighter shade of grey wrestlers at current.)
Endgame COULD revert to evil at anytime, couldn't he?
Isn't the best wrestling grey?
Road Warriors?
Later Undertaker?
Macho Man over horrible worthless Hogan?
Any current AEW?
No one is 100% good ..and keeping people on their toes, as a turn could come at anytime, is better than any 80's WWF.
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Post by Pariah on Nov 25, 2020 0:07:18 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. My CoTG is very, very much "shades of grey." I can't believe that there is anyone who is 100% face or 100% heal. Is Star Warrior not just a shade, one way or the other, of Star Slayer or Avenging Warrior? (Heck, Thantos is the leader of my lighter shade of grey wrestlers at current.) Endgame COULD revert to evil at anytime, couldn't he? Isn't the best wrestling grey? Road Warriors? Later Undertaker? Macho Man over horrible worthless Hogan? Any current AEW? No one is 100% good ..and keeping people on their toes, as a turn could come at anytime, is better than any 80's WWF. Lord Nexus... Probably the purest babyface ever seen in the COTG universe... As far as I can recall. In real life? Ricky Steamboat maybe? |
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Post by joebreakdown on Nov 25, 2020 4:25:51 GMT -5
Face vs Heel.
However, I have had typical face wrestlers have a run as heels and your classic heel run as 'blue eye' too.
I think there is a bias towards heels in Legends, by that I mean there are more traditional heels signed to the game, but that doesn't matter. Pretty much every wrestler ran as both really.
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Post by jasonjaconetti on Nov 25, 2020 5:43:39 GMT -5
I think a lot of how you book is based on how you look at wrestling as a whole. A lot of how you look at wrestling as a whole has to do with how you got into wrestling in the first place. And a lot of that goes to how old you were when you started watching, what was available to you, and what you liked. You would be hard pressed to tell someone that grew up in say Memphis in the late 70's into the 80's that we need all these shades of grey. Heels vs. faces makes perfect sense to them. Do guys go back and forth, yes, but not all the time. It is the "traditional" sense of wrestling. The problem is that that is looked down upon by certain parts of the community, just as others look down on the crazy spot fest matches that have now become seemingly endless.
As for your booking style, at some point, to me, there has to be at least some good vs. bad. Every sport has it, even real life combat sports. How you root for is up to you, but other sports have stolen those wrestling ideas long ago. UFC has lots of fighters (both male and female) who are neither face nor heel. They fight hard and win or lose, they are the same. Do you remember them? Maybe, maybe not. But they have some real heels - Brock Lesnar was one certainly, especially when he fought Randy Couture (a baby face). The Diaz brothers (more Nate though) are promoted like a heel. Chael Sonnen did heel promos. Tito Ortiz, like him or not, acted like a heel then made his big turn face. Connor McGregor is a heel, even if he is loved by many. Now, you might be saying that they are just trying get themselves attention. Okay, but isn't that pro-wrestling? Isn't is supposed to be entertainment? Aren't you supposed to make people want to see you win or lose? Great fighters will come and go, but the ones who you remember are the true characters...and that is easiest when you have faces & heels.
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Post by mwjergs on Nov 25, 2020 9:45:02 GMT -5
Face vs Heel to start grounds everything for me. From there you have all sorts of possibilities.
This is a very interesting discussion. It also shows some of the different ways players use the game. Is it for telling stories? Is it a competitive format? Mix of both?
The dice provide the X factor from making this a straight booking exercise which allows for some creativity and flexibility with ideas.
It can be fun to take a card and play them against type or even change their name just as much as replaying classic battles from the past.
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Post by stu on Nov 25, 2020 10:03:13 GMT -5
I think a lot of how you book is based on how you look at wrestling as a whole. A lot of how you look at wrestling as a whole has to do with how you got into wrestling in the first place. And a lot of that goes to how old you were when you started watching, what was available to you, and what you liked. You would be hard pressed to tell someone that grew up in say Memphis in the late 70's into the 80's that we need all these shades of grey. Heels vs. faces makes perfect sense to them. Do guys go back and forth, yes, but not all the time. It is the "traditional" sense of wrestling. The problem is that that is looked down upon by certain parts of the community, just as others look down on the crazy spot fest matches that have now become seemingly endless. As for your booking style, at some point, to me, there has to be at least some good vs. bad. Every sport has it, even real life combat sports. How you root for is up to you, but other sports have stolen those wrestling ideas long ago. UFC has lots of fighters (both male and female) who are neither face nor heel. They fight hard and win or lose, they are the same. Do you remember them? Maybe, maybe not. But they have some real heels - Brock Lesnar was one certainly, especially when he fought Randy Couture (a baby face). The Diaz brothers (more Nate though) are promoted like a heel. Chael Sonnen did heel promos. Tito Ortiz, like him or not, acted like a heel then made his big turn face. Connor McGregor is a heel, even if he is loved by many. Now, you might be saying that they are just trying get themselves attention. Okay, but isn't that pro-wrestling? Isn't is supposed to be entertainment? Aren't you supposed to make people want to see you win or lose? Great fighters will come and go, but the ones who you remember are the true characters...and that is easiest when you have faces & heels. Well said Jason. The frame of reference one brings to wrestling certainly plays a major impact. |
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Post by stu on Nov 25, 2020 10:04:37 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. My CoTG is very, very much "shades of grey." I can't believe that there is anyone who is 100% face or 100% heal. Is Star Warrior not just a shade, one way or the other, of Star Slayer or Avenging Warrior? (Heck, Thantos is the leader of my lighter shade of grey wrestlers at current.) Endgame COULD revert to evil at anytime, couldn't he? Isn't the best wrestling grey? Road Warriors? Later Undertaker? Macho Man over horrible worthless Hogan? Any current AEW? No one is 100% good ..and keeping people on their toes, as a turn could come at anytime, is better than any 80's WWF. Lord Nexus... Probably the purest babyface ever seen in the COTG universe... As far as I can recall. In real life? Ricky Steamboat maybe? Lord Nexus is probably one of an absolute few I'd never turn (although I did have an impossibly bad angle I ran once, where he was turned against his will!). He is a Steamboat type to me. |
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Post by Dustin on Nov 25, 2020 10:38:39 GMT -5
I think a lot of how you book is based on how you look at wrestling as a whole. A lot of how you look at wrestling as a whole has to do with how you got into wrestling in the first place. And a lot of that goes to how old you were when you started watching, what was available to you, and what you liked. You would be hard pressed to tell someone that grew up in say Memphis in the late 70's into the 80's that we need all these shades of grey. Heels vs. faces makes perfect sense to them. Do guys go back and forth, yes, but not all the time. It is the "traditional" sense of wrestling. The problem is that that is looked down upon by certain parts of the community, just as others look down on the crazy spot fest matches that have now become seemingly endless. As for your booking style, at some point, to me, there has to be at least some good vs. bad. Every sport has it, even real life combat sports. How you root for is up to you, but other sports have stolen those wrestling ideas long ago. UFC has lots of fighters (both male and female) who are neither face nor heel. They fight hard and win or lose, they are the same. Do you remember them? Maybe, maybe not. But they have some real heels - Brock Lesnar was one certainly, especially when he fought Randy Couture (a baby face). The Diaz brothers (more Nate though) are promoted like a heel. Chael Sonnen did heel promos. Tito Ortiz, like him or not, acted like a heel then made his big turn face. Connor McGregor is a heel, even if he is loved by many. Now, you might be saying that they are just trying get themselves attention. Okay, but isn't that pro-wrestling? Isn't is supposed to be entertainment? Aren't you supposed to make people want to see you win or lose? Great fighters will come and go, but the ones who you remember are the true characters...and that is easiest when you have faces & heels. So well said, brother. Every aspect of life and story, no matter how we feel or fight it, comes down to good vs. bad. The audience or watcher typically makes that decision, but character often reveals the obvious. I would say the disruption of babyface/heel is overplayed. |
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Post by jimsteel on Nov 25, 2020 10:52:56 GMT -5
Everybody fights everybody in my fed
I don't always do stablemates against each other much
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Post by TDalton on Nov 25, 2020 11:10:33 GMT -5
Good topic.
I think it's easier to do villain-villain, because fans would just want to see them beat the crap out of one another. Plus, you could see jealousy and conflicts arising more easily between bad guys with compromised morals.
Hero-hero is a little tougher, but I've done it primarily in title situations where someone is clearly the top contender and deserves a shot. Usually little or no "out of the ring" action which you would expect from two good guys who are there for the sake of competition. But if the good guys are, for example, Wolf and Renegade, I just let them go assuming that's what they would consider a "fair fight" given their styles.
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