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Post by stu on Dec 22, 2020 22:58:07 GMT -5
Varsity's a fave of mine, by the by, so many thanks for creating him!! Thanks to all who have chimed in so far. Rob, like the stat totals! Ditto on Varsity and Sabre. I loved those two and had a lot of fun with them in my fed. Varsity had some big money feuds for me and held the IP strap for a good while, actually. Sabre might've had the women's title, too - I can't recall. I've got some original characters floating around on the boards and quite a stack of others in a file folder but I'm not too keen on any of them now. I did create a guy for the last FTR contest. He didn't make it, but it might be interesting to share him on this thread and talk about the why's and what's of his design. I'll have to see if I can dig him up. Do dig him up Sam, would love to see this! |
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Post by stu on Dec 23, 2020 8:30:30 GMT -5
Here's another strategy to paint a wrestler, taken from my own bootlegging:
*I've sometimes given big guys an "A" on their ropes rating, even though their ag rating is in the plus range (+1, +2, etc.). This is to show, through the stats, a wrestler's actual power or strength, and not their agility. For example, I once did a bootleg of a Titan wrestler who was a power guy, and not a speed/agility based wrestler. I envisioned him as just one of those big, barrel-chested wrestlers, who had a lot of strength, but not a lot of quickness.
And yet.....he was strong enough that when he bounced off the ropes, his opponents bounced off him! This was a wrestler who was just a rock (no pun intended!), and if he had a full head of steam off the ropes....well his opponents were going down when they hit him! And yes, sometimes I'd have to adjust the actual result of the Into the Ropes chart to fit this situation, i.e. the big Titan smashing his opponents after he bounces off the ropes, but that's no problem.
Just another example of how we can craft a wrestler's style out of the stats.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 17:49:40 GMT -5
When I statted the ROH stuff with Swarm (I did the AIW set, a CZW set and some Evolve stuff as well but ROH was my biggest contribution I guess is the word), I put a lot of emphasis on the defensive layouts of the wrestlers to really give you an idea of where they were on the card even if you didn't follow ROH. Sometimes that gets lost a bit in editing (Kyle O'Reilly from the starter set having his pin rating tanked still haunts me to this day), but most of the time it came through. Obviously you use the chart ratings and the placement of choice moves to kind of hint where the guy falls on the card too, but to me the defensive layout was the most important piece fo pulling the entire card together.
I did a lot of playtesting with everything I did to make sure stuff felt right, which probably leads to a lot of second guessing but I think the end result ends up being higher quality because you've worked out most of the possible scenarios.
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Post by Vegas on Dec 23, 2020 18:07:21 GMT -5
Here's another strategy to paint a wrestler, taken from my own bootlegging: *I've sometimes given big guys an "A" on their ropes rating, even though their ag rating is in the plus range (+1, +2, etc.). This is to show, through the stats, a wrestler's actual power or strength, and not their agility. For example, I once did a bootleg of a Titan wrestler who was a power guy, and not a speed/agility based wrestler. I envisioned him as just one of those big, barrel-chested wrestlers, who had a lot of strength, but not a lot of quickness. And yet.....he was strong enough that when he bounced off the ropes, his opponents bounced off him! This was a wrestler who was just a rock (no pun intended!), and if he had a full head of steam off the ropes....well his opponents were going down when they hit him! And yes, sometimes I'd have to adjust the actual result of the Into the Ropes chart to fit this situation, i.e. the big Titan smashing his opponents after he bounces off the ropes, but that's no problem. Just another example of how we can craft a wrestler's style out of the stats. Yes, I remember it being stated that is why Yukon Eric has an A rating for ropes on his LOW card. It is also the same reason why Willie Mack as a big guy has an A for his Ropes rating on his original CWFH card that I wrote 8 1/2 years ago because at PWG he would constantly come off the ropes and send the opponent flying with a shoulder tackle. Willie is still taking over matches after being thrown into the ropes which is why his updated card also has an A for Ropes. For me when it comes to charts, a key factor is how the wrestler defends against the chart situation such as Willie Mack coming off the ropes. Some examples that stick out for me: I remember giving Matt Taven an A for Turnbuckle because he had really good corner defense as he would do things such as give a charging opponent a back bodydrop to send them out of the ring while in the corner or while being thrown in the corner propelling himself up and over the charging opponent (just like James Storm which I why I gave Storm an A for Turnbuckle) and then it is actually the opponent who is trapped in the turnbuckle. Rey Horus got an A for Turnbuckle because he often literally runs up the turnbuckle and lands behind the opponent while being thrown into the corner. On his EVOLVE card, I gave Jeff Cobb an A for deathjump because he would often get up and catch the opponent in midair when they performed some type of deathjump against him. So that is one thing I look at when watching matches is how well they come off the ropes, how do they handle themselves when being thrown into the corner, their actions when out of the ring, etc. |
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Post by Sam Fain on Dec 23, 2020 18:18:25 GMT -5
Ditto on Varsity and Sabre. I loved those two and had a lot of fun with them in my fed. Varsity had some big money feuds for me and held the IP strap for a good while, actually. Sabre might've had the women's title, too - I can't recall. I've got some original characters floating around on the boards and quite a stack of others in a file folder but I'm not too keen on any of them now. I did create a guy for the last FTR contest. He didn't make it, but it might be interesting to share him on this thread and talk about the why's and what's of his design. I'll have to see if I can dig him up. Do dig him up Sam, would love to see this! Wellllll... Here he is. I see so much I got "wrong" on this one, but I resisted the temptation to make any edits. It's not listed here and I've frankly forgotten, but I think the Black Parade was either a double stomp or a shooting star press. Oddly, he was created about a month before I saw Darby Allin for the first time, though I think I'd heard of him at this point. I was really going for someone that had the potential to grow into a flashy star but got in his own way due to his sulky attitude brought on by his peculiar look. I tried to add some psychology to his moves building to the arm lock finisher while also giving him some strikes and flying moves. Defensively I would go back and remove at least one of the (tag) options if not two. I don't see him as being someone adept at working with others. He might actually be a little stronger than I'd anticipated or hoped. His PIN should probably be a 6(3) and I might bump up his DQ as I could see him losing his temper easily. I played with some mechanics to have him simply walk out on matches, but not sure if it comes through. Anyway... here he is... Feel free to tear it apart, haha. Not my best work, but fun nonetheless. “The Emo Kid” Ethan Lacey 5’8” 185lbs From “Soulside” LEVEL 1 OFFENSE
1. clubbing blow to neck - 1
2. forearm strike - 1
3. waistlock takedown - 1
4. deep wristlock - 2 (pw)
5. arm drag - 2 (ag)
6. grinding armlock - 2 | LEVEL 1 DEFENSE
1. hurt - 2
2. dazed - 1 (tag)
3. ETHAN LACEY - 1
4. hurt - 2
5. ETHAN LACEY - 2
6. hurt - 2 (tag) | LEVEL 2 OFFENSE
1. shoot kick to the arm - 2
2. springboard armdrag - 2 (pw)
3. into the ropes (c)
4. double knee armbreaker - 2 (ch B)
5. running double stomp - 3
6. ripcord knee strike - 3 | LEVEL 2 DEFENSE
1. down - 3 (tag)
2. ETHAN LACEY - 1
3. hurt - 2 (tag)
4. ETHAN LACEY - 1
5. hurt - 2
6. down - 3 | LEVEL 3 OFFENSE
1. Emo Stunner - 2 (ch F)
2. out of the ring (c)
3. deathjump
4. Kiss of Death - 3
5. The Black Parade - 3*
6. I'M PURPLE (+1)* | LEVEL 3 DEFENSE
1. hurt - 2
2. hurt - 2
3. PIN 5 (2)
4. down - 3 (tag) (lv)
5. down - 3
6. down - 3 |
Power: +1 Cage: 3 Agility: -3 DQ: 5 Ropes: A Ring: B Turnbuckle: C Deathjump: C Whenever Ethan rolls out of the ring or (lv), roll 1 die. Odd: Ethan leaves the area and rolls a count out! If he not counted out, assume his opponent drags him back in. Even: Play normally. The Black Parade* Roll 1 die. Odd: the move works, Even: the opponent yanks Lacey off the rope and takes over on level 2 offense. I'M PURPLE: Lacey applies a seated armbar and cranks it, his eyes roll back into his head and he turns purple! Roll 1 die: Odd: he cranks further, opponent rolls PIN, Even: Lacey rolls off the opponent and sulks in the corner, Opponent recovers and rolls on level 2 offense. "The Emo Kid" Ethan Lacey is part human and part unknown. His mother hopped a transport from Earth to see the galaxy and ended up returning with baby Ethan in tow. He was ostracized due to his blue skin and found in moments or profound anger or exertion, his skin would turn purple! Connecting to the music proliferated by musicians operating in the "Emo" genre, Ethan began applying eyeliner and painting his nails black. He also turned his energies to professional wrestling. Idolizing early performers as disparate as Torin Caelum, Vanity, and Pulsar, he connected particularly with more modern competitors like Encubus, Godsend, Angst, and Shylock! His moveset focuses on combining his high-risk athleticism with a focused attack on the arms to set up his seated armbar finisher, I'M PURPLE. Talented as he is, his emotional damage can lead to odd choices in the ring. For example, he will often apply his finishing hold, turn purple, and slink off to sulk in a corner, leaving his opponent with an opening to attack. Other times, he will leave the ring and not come back, risking a countout! That said, he's very tough and can often take a heavy beating before being put away. He often welcomes the beating his opponents give him. He's a risk taker and usually opts for a suicide dive when he rolls out of the ring. Emo Stunner: A stunner that Ethan often simply sits and stares at the crowd afterwards, failing to capitalize on the impact of the move. Kiss of Death: The Emo Kid kisses his opponent's forehead and then hits a shining wizard off the ropes! I'M PURPLE: A seated armbar, Lacey cranks it, eyes roll back, and turns purple. Sometimes he holds on, sometimes he slinks to the corner and allows the opponent to recover, encouraging them to hit him! Ethan wears heavy eye makeup, paints his nails, and dresses in a lot of black. His blue skin is made all the more apparent by his shock of white hair, shaved on the sides and long on top, often hanging down in his face. He has a slim athletic body, square jaw, and deep set eyes. His wrestling gear includes black washed skinny jeans, black boots, knee pads, elbow pads, and taped fists. He has a tattoo of "The Black Parade" over his heart, a gun shooting black roses on the inside of his right forearm, and barbed wire around his neck. His entrance gear includes a top hat and long black jacket with cut off sleeves and a high collar. |
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Post by DK II on Dec 23, 2020 20:49:19 GMT -5
I don't create a lot of guys, but one thing I always try to do is to stay consistent with the story...to me the back story has always driven me for how I want to put a card together. I honestly have 80 - 90% of the story in mind before I even think about putting a move set together. I tend to write "longer" back stories, but for me that leads how a character is going to perform in the ring. And he one other thing I keep in mind is physical attributes...if I have a unique physicality in mind (think Gallows, who is a "wood-type" of being) then I want to take advantage of or limit based on that attribute. It has to make sense to me for a guy to use a move, even if its a "punch - 1" or "kick - 1".
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Post by Chad Olson on Dec 23, 2020 22:10:38 GMT -5
I don't create a lot of guys, but one thing I always try to do is to stay consistent with the story...to me the back story has always driven me for how I want to put a card together. I honestly have 80 - 90% of the story in mind before I even think about putting a move set together. I tend to write "longer" back stories, but for me that leads how a character is going to perform in the ring. And he one other thing I keep in mind is physical attributes...if I have a unique physicality in mind (think Gallows, who is a "wood-type" of being) then I want to take advantage of or limit based on that attribute. It has to make sense to me for a guy to use a move, even if its a "punch - 1" or "kick - 1". You do a great job of creating fantastic history for your characters, DK II. I've always enjoyed your characters. |
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Post by Slymm on Dec 24, 2020 0:21:21 GMT -5
I watched a painful amount of footage of all of the guys I officially (Chikara, Evolve) and unofficially (Rotunda, Steamboat etc.) contributed to. This is not uncommon or groundbreaking for anyone that stats cards, but for me, overindulging in a particular wrestler really allows me to get a good feel for their tendencies and how their matches should flow and play out. For the boots I create, it helps that I choose ones that I'm a fan of, watched religiously growing up and am very familiar with. So that alone gives me a head start and an initial idea of how I want a guy's card laid out.
There are several people who I trust wholeheartedly with their card statting and look up to and appreciate their work, whether it be the official team or the fantastic bootleggers we're fortunate to have in this community. The amount of time and effort that not only goes into constructing a card, but constructing a card that accurately represents a wrestler/manager (as much as possible, after all the dice ultimately dictate) is seriously admirable.
If you're someone like me who has a hint of OCD perfectionism, EVERYTHING regarding the card has to be just right (through my eyes, whether it actually is or not is another story). So, as fun as it is to create, and to share, and I do love it, it can become tedious for me at times and I need to take a break just to breathe and refresh myself.
Much props to the guys who continue to write these great cards set after set as well as the dope unofficial cards we are continuously blessed with. This is really a team effort and I'm super proud to have been a small part of it.
Great thread.
*Edit - and yes, as @kyoken said, playtesting galore.
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Post by WTIC on Dec 24, 2020 6:41:18 GMT -5
If you're someone like me who has a hint of OCD perfectionism, EVERYTHING regarding the card has to be just right ( through my eyes, whether it actually is or not is another story). So, as fun as it is to create, and to share, and I do love it, it can become tedious for me at times and I need to take a break just to breathe and refresh myself. Agreeing with the first sentence completely, not so much the last sentence. I like creating cards quite a bit, and it's more fun for me to create than it is to play! I've played countless fight cards ever since the Superstar Pro Wrestling Game in 1984 for both that game and this, so playing isn't as much fun since I have to come up with storylines. Let me be specific: DIFFERENT storylines when playing. For a good storyline, I need inspiration... However, just like with my MUPPETS set, writing playing cards is fun! I tend to make cards WITHOUT a Special Condition. I'd rather keep playing cards simple and not have to worry about what kind of unique thing can I think of for each card. In conclusion, I think inspiration is the key for me for both playing and creating! Todd C WTIC |
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Post by Chad Olson on Dec 24, 2020 11:36:18 GMT -5
If you're someone like me who has a hint of OCD perfectionism, EVERYTHING regarding the card has to be just right ( through my eyes, whether it actually is or not is another story). So, as fun as it is to create, and to share, and I do love it, it can become tedious for me at times and I need to take a break just to breathe and refresh myself. I really enjoy reviewing your projects, because you usually present 3-4 different options for a wrestler's card. It shows the amount of time and research you put into the stats, Slymm . |
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