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Post by Travis605 on May 8, 2021 19:49:54 GMT -5
For the ultimate escape match, I didn’t like the rules, so I reversed it. Pinfall losers had to leave the cage. I dug the idea. Gladiators laying waste to their opponents, leaving them incapacitated in the ring and walking out victorious one at a time until total team dominance was achieved. Problem is sometimes a Gladiator ends up in there 1 on 3 or more and the “losing” team end up ganging up on him and win the match. That’s unfortunately happened to the Glads in my fed a few times. They still win more of those escape matches than they lose though. That was always my issue...if it was an 8 man tag and say Spike, Brute and Mayhem were gone from the match and Massacre was facing off against 4 Animen and Wolf said “you know, all four of us are jumping him and he’s trappedl...poor ol Massacre us screwed lol...made the winners have a disadvantage. It was hard for me to grasp the concept. It would seem the Gladiatiors would want that big advantage That’s the main reason I made it an elimination tag match which would keep the losers at a disadvantage |
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Post by Pariah on May 9, 2021 7:37:02 GMT -5
I dug the idea. Gladiators laying waste to their opponents, leaving them incapacitated in the ring and walking out victorious one at a time until total team dominance was achieved. Problem is sometimes a Gladiator ends up in there 1 on 3 or more and the “losing” team end up ganging up on him and win the match. That’s unfortunately happened to the Glads in my fed a few times. They still win more of those escape matches than they lose though. That was always my issue...if it was an 8 man tag and say Spike, Brute and Mayhem were gone from the match and Massacre was facing off against 4 Animen and Wolf said “you know, all four of us are jumping him and he’s trappedl...poor ol Massacre us screwed lol...made the winners have a disadvantage. It was hard for me to grasp the concept. It would seem the Gladiatiors would want that big advantage That’s the main reason I made it an elimination tag match which would keep the losers at a disadvantage Haven't really played too many of these... Pretty much for the same reason that several promoters have mentioned already - Was never a big fan of the 'escape' rule for cage matches of any kind... That being said, I did roll out one in particular that was a lot of fun... Ironically, it wasn't a COTG match for me at all... It actually took place in my very first indy fed - OutBreak Ultimate Escape Match |
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Post by Sam Fain on May 9, 2021 12:42:53 GMT -5
Great episode, guys! It was so much fun to revisit 2089 - a real stroll down memory lane. It's been about 25 years since I played that year out and I remember it being one of my favorites. In part because there wasn't a ton of new talent and I felt I had a strong handle on all the characters up to that point so it made my feuds feel very alive. The introduction of managers was huge. I rushed through 2088 in order to bring them in and the Guile/Bounty Hunter tandem was easily my favorite. As was discussed, I also loved using Trainer Jim in tag action - lots of 6-mans with him, Billy Jo, and Nexus. Darkos was a big one for me too. I remember Bounty Hunter dominating Wolf early on in their feud, but I had a Torture Chamber match (the advantage of having the next few sets already, I introduced the match early) and Wolf won a bloody affair to help gain momentum towards his first title reign, I believe - I actually didn't give Wolf many title shots the first couple years. And, of course, there were plenty of "Guile in a cage above the ring" and "if Wolf wins, he gets 5 minutes with Guile" types of stips.
As for Aethran Ultimate Escape... I may be in the minority, but I loved it. As mentioned, they were always long bloody wars and there was something that made sense about the escape mechanics and the winning team leaving the ring first. Much like Rob said, there was something about the idea of the Gladiators leaving their broken opponents in the ring. And from a Gladiator's point of view, who cares if it's 5-on-1 or 3-on-1. They just like to fight. I think Brute was a last Glad in the match on one occasion and I could just envision him welcoming the fight while his brothers stood outside the cage cheering him on. I used it exclusively for Gladiator involved bouts and I believe my first one was against the Ani-Men, naturally.
As for the draft analysis analysis - in my defense, I did actually say what Tim responded with at one point on the episode - this wasn't a fantasy football draft, this was a draft to build a multi-tiered roster to structure a promotion around. It was just fun to indulge that non "smart" fan side of the brain and say "How did Lou Thesz not go earlier?". It was great to hear the logic of your individual drafts - which of course, make a lot of sense and certainly set the table for some great promotions! I'm really looking forward to seeing what you guys do - mainly so I can shamelessly steal some great ideas, haha.
Excellent work as always. Looking forward to what's next!
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Post by "Emperor Norton" (Mark T) on May 10, 2021 0:18:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the shoutout, gentlemen.
So much ground covered on this one. As far as the Ultimate Escape match, I ran a few of those back in the day but always with Gladiators as far as I recall. It was the same problem everybody seems to have had: One guy getting left in the ring with three or more is just going to get beat down. It makes no sense any other way. What, the other two guys are just going to watch as the lone guy leaves the cage over their beaten partner? "Crap, there he goes. Guess we should do something but rules are rules in this blood feud that can only be settled in a cage and we already used our pin saves."
ON the legends side, I think the mix of old and new that's been the pattern so far still works best. Getting all of those older cards colorized (or as many as can be done) is a long process but there are so many good ones that need that vital update. Especially the ones that could really benefit from all the extra footage out there that wasn't easily accessible when the old cards were written.
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Post by Vegas on May 10, 2021 0:38:07 GMT -5
I finished listening to this podcast today.
I liked how the LOW poll went. I like having a new name on a poll although I think the new name will often have an advantage as Riggs showed here since there were bigger names on the poll. For storyline reasons that will fit with my fed, I also voted for Riggs but I probably would have voted for Adorable Adrian if the other Adrian Adonis card had not been so new. At some point, I am also hoping to get Suoer Crazy in color so I can team him with Juventud Guerrera.
Regarding the 2089 discussion, in my color card fed I am currently in September of 2090 (I will return to that chapter once I finish filling in my COTG fed's 2130s gap) so the wrestlers from that set have only been in my fed a relatively limited amount of time. But so far, Bounty Hunter was my Rookie/Newcomer of the Year for 2089, Bounty Hunter had a brief InterPlanetary Championship reign, Galactic Punisher also had a brief InterPlanetary Championship reign, and Earthquake along with Massif are my current IP Tag Team Champions.
Also, since you mentioned it on the end of this podcast, when you get a chance, I am still looking forward to receiving your feedback on those rough drafts for that unoffical project I sent you last week. I worked on the project a little this weekend and I should have some more to send you soon. As always, thank you for taking the time to look over my work!
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Post by Travis605 on May 10, 2021 0:40:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the shoutout, gentlemen. So much ground covered on this one. As far as the Ultimate Escape match, I ran a few of those back in the day but always with Gladiators as far as I recall. It was the same problem everybody seems to have had: One guy getting left in the ring with three or more is just going to get beat down. It makes no sense any other way. What, the other two guys are just going to watch as the lone guy leaves the cage over their beaten partner? "Crap, there he goes. Guess we should do something but rules are rules in this blood feud that can only be settled in a cage and we already used our pin saves." ON the legends side, I think the mix of old and new that's been the pattern so far still works best. Getting all of those older cards colorized (or as many as can be done) is a long process but there are so many good ones that need that vital update. Especially the ones that could really benefit from all the extra footage out there that wasn't easily accessible when the old cards were written. When I played cotg when I was younger, it was one with Brute, Spike and massacre taking on Wolf, Ram and Reptillo. Wolf and Ram were able to leave and if left Reptillo in the cage with the three Gladiators. I thought for a second and said, “Are Wolf and Ram thinking “sorry bout your luck Reptillo! We’re already out, have fun with a 3-1 against the Gladiators.” When you picture this, it’s probably not a smart decision by the opposing team to the gladiators because the better off you do, the worse it is for your team. Hell, if I was the gladiators in that scenario, I’d let Ram and Wolf just escape and have Reptillo at your disposal with a 3 on 1 advantage. That’s a murder waiting to happen, lol. That’s the moment I changed the rules to if a wrestler was pinned/submitted, they were eliminated. Just made more sense. I love the concept of an elimination tag cage match. |
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Post by the_faction on May 10, 2021 1:15:58 GMT -5
I have a lot of similar thoughts people on the board here have on the Aethran Escape Match, but always liked that the reverse elimination is what made it Aethran style. That didn't stop me from having a lot of Elimination Cage matches for other teams and their feuds especially during the Wargames and Mega Tourney years, but only the Aethrans used their style of match as they would see it as just how dominate they are that even when they could potentially be handicapped in a match they'd still dominate.
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Post by Cory Olson on May 10, 2021 9:49:40 GMT -5
Great comments, everyone! Also, since you mentioned it on the end of this podcast, when you get a chance, I am still looking forward to receiving your feedback on those rough drafts for that unoffical project I sent you last week. I worked on the project a little this weekend and I should have some more to send you soon. As always, thank you for taking the time to look over my work! We will get to them, Zeke! Sorry it was a busy weekend with the IPW anniversary card. I thought for a second and said, “Are Wolf and Ram thinking “sorry bout your luck Reptillo! We’re already out, have fun with a 3-1 against the Gladiators.” When you picture this, it’s probably not a smart decision by the opposing team to the gladiators because the better off you do, the worse it is for your team. Hell, if I was the gladiators in that scenario, I’d let Ram and Wolf just escape and have Reptillo at your disposal with a 3 on 1 advantage. That’s a murder waiting to happen, lol. Travis, that's a great example of how in an Aethran Ultimate Escape Match, if you had a weaker guy on one team such as Reptillo, you had to try to get him out early so he wasn't left in an impossible situation. It's hard to remember that early in the match sometimes. That’s the moment I changed the rules to if a wrestler was pinned/submitted, they were eliminated. Just made more sense. I love the concept of an elimination tag cage match. Travis, while I did some Escape Matches, I always liked the concept of an Elimination Cage Match. I remember one I did near the end of my active COTG playing time, around 2004 (real time). It was Mensar, Euritar, Mike Fortune, and Tanck representing Cordanus against Bloodline, Encubus, Eclipse, and Vyper representing Thantos. Thantos' team was the faces of the two teams. (Forgive me for forgetting if this was an official feud and what the group names were.) Thantos' team had eliminated everyone by Euritar but Euritar rallied back to eliminate all four and win! With Cordanus' team being the heels, the psychology was a little screwy but it was an awesome comeback! |
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Post by Travis605 on May 10, 2021 11:29:14 GMT -5
Great comments, everyone! Also, since you mentioned it on the end of this podcast, when you get a chance, I am still looking forward to receiving your feedback on those rough drafts for that unoffical project I sent you last week. I worked on the project a little this weekend and I should have some more to send you soon. As always, thank you for taking the time to look over my work! We will get to them, Zeke! Sorry it was a busy weekend with the IPW anniversary card. I thought for a second and said, “Are Wolf and Ram thinking “sorry bout your luck Reptillo! We’re already out, have fun with a 3-1 against the Gladiators.” When you picture this, it’s probably not a smart decision by the opposing team to the gladiators because the better off you do, the worse it is for your team. Hell, if I was the gladiators in that scenario, I’d let Ram and Wolf just escape and have Reptillo at your disposal with a 3 on 1 advantage. That’s a murder waiting to happen, lol. Travis, that's a great example of how in an Aethran Ultimate Escape Match, if you had a weaker guy on one team such as Reptillo, you had to try to get him out early so he wasn't left in an impossible situation. It's hard to remember that early in the match sometimes. That’s the moment I changed the rules to if a wrestler was pinned/submitted, they were eliminated. Just made more sense. I love the concept of an elimination tag cage match. Travis, while I did some Escape Matches, I always liked the concept of an Elimination Cage Match. I remember one I did near the end of my active COTG playing time, around 2004 (real time). It was Mensar, Euritar, Mike Fortune, and Tanck representing Cordanus against Bloodline, Encubus, Eclipse, and Vyper representing Thantos. Thantos' team was the faces of the two teams. (Forgive me for forgetting if this was an official feud and what the group names were.) Thantos' team had eliminated everyone by Euritar but Euritar rallied back to eliminate all four and win! With Cordanus' team being the heels, the psychology was a little screwy but it was an awesome comeback! I think I just have it in my head I don’t understand escaping the cage rules. I remember seeing nwa/southern territory cage matches and loving it and then seeing my first WWF cage match in 82 and thinking “the hell?!” lol |
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Post by Cory Olson on May 10, 2021 12:21:07 GMT -5
I think I just have it in my head I don’t understand escaping the cage rules. I remember seeing nwa/southern territory cage matches and loving it and then seeing my first WWF cage match in 82 and thinking “the hell?!” lol I know the mentality was supposed to be that the winner beats his opponent up so badly that he can just leave the cage because the opponent is too hurt to stop him. And I think with some of Bruno's Cage Matches or other places where they did escape-the-cage rules, they did a good job of booking it that way. But then you got too many accidental "fall out of the cage" finishes where the heel can win and it just weakens the stip and the magic of the cage. I tend to side with you, Travis, and prefer Cage Matches with a clean win inside the cage. |
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