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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 10:20:38 GMT -5
I ran a best-of-seven series with Bryan Danielson (ROH LE card) vs. Lou Thesz, and Danielson squeaked out a 4-3 victory. That gave him the right to face Harley Race for the World Title, and Race beat him in a great match. I can't speak for other indie cards, but I think Danielson is just about where he should be.
I am considering bringing in Nigel McGuinness to feud with Danielson next, but I'm afraid his card is not quite strong enough to hang with Danielson in a competitive feud.
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Post by Pariah on May 8, 2021 10:27:34 GMT -5
I am considering bringing in Nigel McGuinness to feud with Danielson next, but I'm afraid his card is not quite strong enough to hang with Danielson in a competitive feud. Although I cannot speak to the strength of the B&W version, Nigel's color card has never presented Danielson with much competition for me... And I've tried running that particular angle on several occasions. |
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Post by Sam Fain on May 8, 2021 11:30:11 GMT -5
First of all, thank you for all the wonderful comments. Much appreciated.
An even bigger thanks for continuing the conversation - I love that.
For what it's worth, I, too, have run McGuinness/Danielson feuds in the past, and while Danielson tends to get the better, it's far closer than you'd think, and I had Nigel dominate Danielson on a few occasions, including something like a 3-move match.
Obviously, as has been discussed, this is a game of chance. Of course, we have a way of stacking the deck with stats and mechanics, and choices during gameplay, but the dice are the ultimate arbiters. That said, I think if you look at the Indie cards, more often than not, the legends cards are stronger. A great example from the latest set is Daniel Garcia. Garcia is one of the best wrestlers on the indies today. He holds two titles right now and recently defeated the (now former) IWTV champ, Lee Moriarty, in a non-title match. He'd have to be considered a main eventer on the indie circuit and easily an upper mid-carder or semi-main event in a promotion like ROH. However, his stats would place him on the mid-card in a legends fed, maybe upper-mid-card at best. Now, he could pull off the win against anybody, really. But against Legends main eventers, he's going to struggle a lot. Even upper-midcard guys are going to give him a lot of trouble. But he's going to score wins over guys like Doug Gilbert pretty consistently- and he should. So I tend to think the cards are well-balanced, as the teams have attested to before. And when you start looking at the "legends" of the indies - Danielson, Styles, Steen, Black, Moxley, even Eddie Kingston - I think their cards can beat the top tier of the Legends with some consistency, as I personally believe they should. That said, they're still going to lose a lot more than win against Thesz, Race, Rogers, etc.
The biggest equalizer on the indie side of things, in my opinion, is the consistent "down-3" we see on level 2 defense. It's something we rarely see on the upper-tier legends cards, if ever, but it's fairly consistent for all but the top of tops for the indies. And, let me tell you, that "down-3" has proven the lynchpin for many matches in my indie fed(s).
Now, you do have some guys like, to use another example from the latest indies set, Jake Something. Something defies a bit of the curve if you will. His card places him as a main eventer for the indies, but it also gives him quite the edge against a lot of legends guys. Do I think he should be competitive against top-tier legends? No, I don't. But he's also probably not a name I'd use in a legends fed either.
I guess the TLDR here is: most of the indies talent I would consider graduating or moving to legends are statted in a way that I believe is consistent with their placement on the card regardless of the time period. So stats don't need to change.
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Post by Slymm on May 8, 2021 11:35:46 GMT -5
I ran a best-of-seven series with Bryan Danielson (ROH LE card) vs. Lou Thesz, and Danielson squeaked out a 4-3 victory. That gave him the right to face Harley Race for the World Title, and Race beat him in a great match. I can't speak for other indie cards, but I think Danielson is just about where he should be. I am considering bringing in Nigel McGuinness to feud with Danielson next, but I'm afraid his card is not quite strong enough to hang with Danielson in a competitive feud. Change the down - 3 on L2D to hurt - 2? Change Tower of London - 3 Add 1 to TOWER OF LONDON (0)? Change his Ag to -1? Change Bryan's PIN to 8 (5)? That should make their feud more competitive Lol IT'S UP TO YOU |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 11:36:08 GMT -5
Well said Sam, now for my next podcast question.
Is BRODY LEE ready for his LOW card?
He came so far from his Chikara Big Rig card...
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Post by Big Bri on May 13, 2021 15:58:12 GMT -5
That Bobby & Gorilla card is AWESOME! I don't play Legends but I'm so happy for all of you that do. What a great addition to add more fun for you guys! I use the original Bill Apter and GMC cards in my EC fed and maybe I'll have to pick this one up too!
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Post by malicelover on May 23, 2021 21:35:49 GMT -5
Troy, I concur. It honestly makes me want to dive right into LOW, right now, rather than wait until mid July. |
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Post by malicelover on May 23, 2021 21:46:59 GMT -5
Looking at things I always question what is this guy’s pin rating. I used to think 4(1) always had the advantage on guys with a 6(3) just because the 6(3) guy had to work harder to level the playing field. Then I realized that the 6(3) probably has some advantages (stronger finish, more power) and the 4(1) may have multiple zero finishers, or a 1 finisher and a 0 finisher with a lot of power moves.
All that to say, with Legends I plan to run it like my GWF fed. Guys will get booked for probably three levels four if I have a hardcore division a TV, IC, Heavyweight title level. I usually slot guys where they were at in their careers and move from there. It doesn’t matter to me if Aethran Overmaster beats Perfect Specimen in three offensive moves after blocking Perfect Specimen’s first move. The dice rolled the way they rolled. Should A guy like Nikolai be able to beat Thez, no, but if the dice roll that way they roll that way. However, why would he even be in a match with Thez? He is an IC level or TV Title level at best in my mind.
That’s the fun in the game - anyone can beat anyone at any given time.
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