Pin saves and distractions

[David Morse]

Dec 29, 2009 0:06:22 GMT -5 @havoc said:

I got a question that I want to know what people do. When you throw random pairings together do you still use the pin saves and (tag) on the cards. I don't. Unless the team is an established team or have won tag titles I don't give them an advantage they have not yet earned.

If the partners are completely unaffiliated, no. No use of defensive tags and no pin saves. If they have some connection, like being teammates but not tag partners, they get one pin save instead of two and can make a defensive tag on a roll of four or lower instead of six or lower. Also, tag team partners can tag each other in on offense on the same offensive level, but non-partners enter on level one offense. If the the wrestlers are teammates who sometimes team up but not regularly, I will let them come in on level 2 offense, but not level 3 (I honestly don't recall if those are official rules or if I made them up).

This one I'm sure is my own rule: when a wrestler in tag match is on defense and then makes a comeback on level 1 offense, he can tag his partner immediately, but on level 2 or 3 offense he has to complete one offensive move before tagging in his partner.

[jmello]

Double A, I actually believe the double roll DQ has been made "official" awhile ago by Tom and I know it's used at all the Con tournaments.

[doublea]

Dec 29, 2009 0:06:22 GMT -5 @havoc said:

Roll before. Anything else is just cheating, IMO.

I roll the distraction when the pin roll would be 5 and the interference when the roll would be 7 in singles matches. In tag matches I still roll at 5 for distraction but the next two rolls are for pin saves and the next roll is for the interference.

I got a question that I want to know what people do. When you throw random pairings together do you still use the pin saves and (tag) on the cards. I don't. Unless the team is an established team or have won tag titles I don't give them an advantage they have not yet earned.

Just one instead of two.

I posted this a few weeks back about my opinion about the (tag) rule. I just don't think it should take the same roll if a partner is down, hurt or dazed to tag out to an opponent. It seems, to me, the tag would be harder to make if you are down, rather than dazed.

My version
dazed - 1 (tag)
Partners: 2-6
Teammates/Friends/Previous tag: 2-5
Never teamed: 2-4


hurt - 2 (tag)
Partners: 2-5
Teammates/Friends/Previous tag: 2-4
Never teamed: 2-3

down - 3 (tag)
Partners: 2-4
Teammates/Friends/Previous tag: 2-3
Never teamed: 2

Dec 29, 2009 2:45:16 GMT -5 jmello said:

Double A, I actually believe the double roll DQ has been made "official" awhile ago by Tom and I know it's used at all the Con tournaments.

Thanks for the clarification. I still dont get the double roll though.

So if the first roll is a DQ, but the 2nd roll isn't, it's no DQ

If the first roll isn't a DQ, but the 2nd roll is, it's a DQ

If both rolls are DQ, is that a double negative, which turns it into a positive, making it a no DQ!?! (I'm being sarcastic )

If Tom thought it was a problem (too many DQs), why don't start lowering DQs instead of the goofy double roll. And making it official, starting with this upcoming set, that all previously released cards will have their DQs decrease by two to stay uniform with the upcoming sets (ex. Mutant's 2087 card will now be 5 or Star Warrior's 2087 card will be 3).

To me, just solve it like that rather than take away from the game with the double roll stuff.

[toasterboy]

I roll pin saves first (before pin), then interference (before pin) then distractions last (before pin...UNLESS it's a pin attempt coming off of a chart - deathjump, turnbuckle, ropes - As I feel you have to follow chart instructions first. I only allow Distractions to do this, after the pin, thing, but it sometimes adds some great drama. Don't consider that heating at all).

Interference by Managers and Women (wrestlers or valets) will roll on the Manager Interference chart. (Sorry ladies)

Havoc- I almost never throw random pairings together. In COTG, I only use the tag teams stated in the book and so I always use (tag) and pin saves. I know there's that chart that gives more benefit to those who've been together longer, but I figure if they are an official team in the book, they are good enough to use the full benefits (unless otherwise stated byt the book 2124 - Divided We Fall, Common Enemy)

[havoc]

Dec 29, 2009 11:37:32 GMT -5 throwingtoasters said:

Havoc- I almost never throw random pairings together. In COTG, I only use the tag teams stated in the book and so I always use (tag) and pin saves. I know there's that chart that gives more benefit to those who've been together longer, but I figure if they are an official team in the book, they are good enough to use the full benefits (unless otherwise stated byt the book 2124 - Divided We Fall, Common Enemy)

I never did in CoTG either and do exactly what you say here. Most of the random pairing comes to play in my Legends fed with teams like the current HWA Tag Champs, Quack'N'Cracker.

[TTX]

I think especially at the con it's so good matches aren't ended on cheap dq's. You rarely see dq's anymore anyways except for hitting the ref and blatant interference and the rare foreign object.

[barnestormer]

I wasn't aware that double rolling for disqualifications was an official COTG rule now. I always thought that was a house rule JMello came up with for the OhioCon tournaments. I'll have to start remembering to use it in the HWA and UIW from now on.

[the_faction]

The way I've always used pin saves and manager distractions is when the PIN hits 5 I will roll manager 1st then pin saves if there is no manager option. Once the PIN reaches 7 or higher I use wrestler/manager interference charts as they will always trump the save/distractions. If the interference charts have been used up then I go back to manager distractions or pin saves if the character still has them. At this point of the match pin saves now trump manager distractions in order of use.

Also I've always double rolled for DQ's since '88, i didn't realize it was an official ruling. I just noticed back then that more than half my card was always being DQ'd for just fighting outside of the ring so i wanted to make sure it was more tolerated in my fed. Now if a character has an 'illegal' move on their card those only get a one roll for the DQ check as they are outside the 'norm' of rough housing.

It is these two rulings alone that i can't use the match simulator on Cotgonline as I feel they really define my fed. If these options could be flagged I would be able to catch up in my fed very quickly. Essentially you just need an A.I. interfernce flag checker that the players can set up pre match and a DQ toggle beyond just double rolls. A double roll for charts and then another toggle for double rolls for any character based maneuvers. In fact I may post this on the online side.

[Justin Case]

I think "officially" for tagging out on defense, it says that if partners are not an official tag team or in the same group, that all (tag) on defense are ignored. Or at least use the 1-4 rule rolling 2 dice to try tagging out.

I usually wait until after to roll for pin saves, and if the save is unsuccessful, the match is over. However, I mix it up too, as I've done it before hand as well. I just go with the feel of the match and how it's going. If it's really early in the match, I might do it after, just to try and keep it going. If it's late and there's a lot of pin tokens, I probably don't do it after a pin. To me, if they have a lot of tokens, they've been working hard in the ring and might not be as sharp and aware to make late pin saves.

I roll twice for DQ's on normal out of the ring stuff. But for like pin saves and interference, I just take the initial roll. Seems to make more sense if someone interferes in a match, the referee won't tolerate that sort of thing.

I do like that idea that Old Skewl's kids came up with about the manager/valet rolling their distraction and then on the Manager chart. That's a pretty cool idea.