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Post by marktaggart on Oct 26, 2011 23:16:23 GMT -5
Andre...well, maybe his peak was at WM3/The Princess Bride, but it's not like he was plucked from obscurity for that push. He was an international crossover star, famous-to-non-fans celebrity in the 1970's. His extensive write-up in Sports Illustrated--kind of a big deal for a wrestler at the time--came years before the heel turn and push. Plus, the WM3 push came when he was almost completely immobile. A card for that would almost have to have +5 Agility and Man-Mountain-type stats (but better). A worthy project to undertake but definitely not the way you want introduce him to the game. Pete wrote pretty much what I was going to say regarding Andre, so I'll just quote and agree. |
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Post by Shon Maxx on Oct 27, 2011 4:39:05 GMT -5
I did a card like that early on. His matches were SO BORING so I tossed it aside. I prefer the current one as I like him better in his prime.
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Post by johnandryan on Oct 27, 2011 5:38:23 GMT -5
Andre...well, maybe his peak was at WM3/The Princess Bride, but it's not like he was plucked from obscurity for that push. He was an international crossover star, famous-to-non-fans celebrity in the 1970's. His extensive write-up in Sports Illustrated--kind of a big deal for a wrestler at the time--came years before the heel turn and push. Plus, the WM3 push came when he was almost completely immobile. A card for that would almost have to have +5 Agility and Man-Mountain-type stats (but better). A worthy project to undertake but definitely not the way you want introduce him to the game. Pete wrote pretty much what I was going to say regarding Andre, so I'll just quote and agree. I will bump that one more time and third it. |
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Post by swarm on Oct 27, 2011 8:40:31 GMT -5
Plus, the WM3 push came when he was almost completely immobile. A card for that would almost have to have +5 Agility and Man-Mountain-type stats (but better). A worthy project to undertake but definitely not the way you want introduce him to the game. I have never understood this angle and probably never will. Are the LOW guys stated based on their real-life persons or how the wrestlers are booked? Who cares how Andre the real guy's health might have been around WM3, he was booked as the unbeatable giant that even the great Hulk Hogan would not be able to stop. If today the Undertaker agreed to be part of LOW would anyone say "Oh man UT is old as hell he should have +5 agility"? No, cause UT is booked to be the phenom, going for 20-0 at Mania. He would be totally stacked. Cause it would be a LOW card for Undertaker, not 40 year old Mark Calloway playing the Undertaker. IMO the cards should represent the prime of the character, not the person playing the character. Maybe I just can't un-wrap my head from around the business side of it. From a business, and marketing standpoint I would think a WWF/WM3 Andre would be about the best marketing you could ask for. It's simple identifiable marketing. Look at every single Legends video game he has ever been in. He's black strap Andre. He moves around just fine on those games. Can you imagine if instead they used younger Andre and the reasoning they gave to their buyers was "WM3 Andre was almost completely immobile. If we used him in this video game he would be super slow." Doesn't make much sense. That's my angle on Andre. If he ever does that get that card I would think it should be stronger, or as least as strong as his current one. |
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Post by Crimson Cross on Oct 27, 2011 10:01:15 GMT -5
I have to agree that having a Wrestler or Manager at their possible best in the business for Stats is needed in this game when it comes to the Official Release. I knew Jimmy Hart as the Manager first and then learned that he wrestled, so I can understand that we all want either or both a Wrestler Stat & Manager Chart Card to make Jimmy Hart valid in this game. In the end Jimmy Hart is a great signing and I look forward to having him part of my experience with this great game we all love...
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Post by graymar on Oct 27, 2011 10:52:10 GMT -5
Plus, the WM3 push came when he was almost completely immobile. A card for that would almost have to have +5 Agility and Man-Mountain-type stats (but better). A worthy project to undertake but definitely not the way you want introduce him to the game. I have never understood this angle and probably never will. Are the LOW guys stated based on their real-life persons or how the wrestlers are booked? Who cares how Andre the real guy's health might have been around WM3, he was booked as the unbeatable giant that even the great Hulk Hogan would not be able to stop. If today the Undertaker agreed to be part of LOW would anyone say "Oh man UT is old as hell he should have +5 agility"? No, cause UT is booked to be the phenom, going for 20-0 at Mania. He would be totally stacked. Cause it would be a LOW card for Undertaker, not 40 year old Mark Calloway playing the Undertaker. IMO the cards should represent the prime of the character, not the person playing the character. Maybe I just can't un-wrap my head from around the business side of it. From a business, and marketing standpoint I would think a WWF/WM3 Andre would be about the best marketing you could ask for. It's simple identifiable marketing. Look at every single Legends video game he has ever been in. He's black strap Andre. He moves around just fine on those games. Can you imagine if instead they used younger Andre and the reasoning they gave to their buyers was "WM3 Andre was almost completely immobile. If we used him in this video game he would be super slow." Doesn't make much sense. That's my angle on Andre. If he ever does that get that card I would think it should be stronger, or as least as strong as his current one. My apologies for not remembering who, but someone did a bootleg set from WM4 which included Andre. He certainly was not as strong as the LOW version, but one of the stronger cards (beside Hogan) in the set. +3 Agility -5 Power with no whip or out of the ring unless the opponent was -4 power. I'm not a master of Lord Rahl...but I think he would be about a 45 (compared to 67 LOW). |
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Post by TTX on Oct 27, 2011 10:56:28 GMT -5
Tournament Master (and I think Mike Melesky) did that set.
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Post by graymar on Oct 27, 2011 10:59:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the assist!
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Post by Pete on Oct 27, 2011 11:57:27 GMT -5
Plus, the WM3 push came when he was almost completely immobile. A card for that would almost have to have +5 Agility and Man-Mountain-type stats (but better). A worthy project to undertake but definitely not the way you want introduce him to the game. I have never understood this angle and probably never will. Are the LOW guys stated based on their real-life persons or how the wrestlers are booked? Who cares how Andre the real guy's health might have been around WM3, he was booked as the unbeatable giant that even the great Hulk Hogan would not be able to stop. If today the Undertaker agreed to be part of LOW would anyone say "Oh man UT is old as hell he should have +5 agility"? No, cause UT is booked to be the phenom, going for 20-0 at Mania. He would be totally stacked. Cause it would be a LOW card for Undertaker, not 40 year old Mark Calloway playing the Undertaker. IMO the cards should represent the prime of the character, not the person playing the character. [/qb] Of course not. You'd write the card for UT at his peak. When that was specifically is up for debate but I would think at any point from 1997 (when he got his first legit title reign) to 2003. 'Taker's old-and-decline phase didn't coincide with his most famous angle. If anything, Old 'Taker is sort of like Old Bruno Sammartino--turning up for big matches and angles as a special attraction. The problem is, Black Strap Andre was far from unbeatable, nor was he portrayed that way after awhile. Contrary to the pre-match hype, Hogan DID stop him. Then he needed an impostor referee to beat Hogan the second time after Hogan got a clear visual pinfall, started using stuff like putting his feet on the ropes to beat guys like Duggan and JYD, got a million title matches against Randy Savage and couldn't take the title in any of them, he couldn't beat Jake the Snake at WM5, then all those 30-second jobs to the Warrior. Not to mention tapping out to Inoki just prior to the outfit change. The Survivor Series where he laid waste to Bam Bam Bigelow was about the only time after the SNME Battle Royal where he truly looked and was booked to be unstoppable. Announcers may have SAID he was unstoppable, but announcers say lots of things--there reached a point where the actual results trumped the hype. |
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Post by Pete on Oct 27, 2011 12:12:09 GMT -5
My apologies for not remembering who, but someone did a bootleg set from WM4 which included Andre. He certainly was not as strong as the LOW version, but one of the stronger cards (beside Hogan) in the set. +3 Agility -5 Power with no whip or out of the ring unless the opponent was -4 power. I'm not a master of Lord Rahl...but I think he would be about a 45 (compared to 67 LOW). Sounds about right. It's basically become accepted that only jobbers or managers have +3 anything, which I have to say I'm not totally a fan of--I like having more variance in Agility, Power and Pin Ratings, and I don't see why you can't have a very strong card with such a rating if you do things right elsewhere (think the original Pegasus with his 8/5 Pin--not as good as he'd be later but still a contender). Haven't seen the card in a long time but you could just have 6 comebacks on L1D and 3 Level 3 moves and a low Pin and you're getting somewhere. And the heel-turned Andre really can't be better than Hogan and at some point (though not in the WM4 set) the Warrior would have to surpass him as well. |
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