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Post by subvert69 on Aug 13, 2012 16:52:04 GMT -5
I've been a hardcore ROH fan since the beginning but lately I like most ROH fans have been burnt out on the fed. It really isn't fed it used to be and I understand the TNA and WWE have signed a lot of their talent but ROH seems really stagnant to me. Here are a few idea I have to help them.
1 - Turn Kevin Steen face and turn Jim Cornette heel. Look I'm sorry everything I've seen with Steen just says the fans like him to much to boo him and Cornette just doesn't have the presence anymore to change that. I really don't think many fans care about Kevin Steen going to the syndication dinners. ROH has always had a problem keeping their champions relevant and no one is buying Kevin Steen as a heel.
2 - Start taping extra segments. Look I believe it's been 4 weeks since Kenny King showed up on a live Impact Wrestling and ROH still hasn't acknowledged that he even left. 2 weeks later they were showing an interview the ANX and 3 weeks later they were talking about a tag match that would never happen. Tape a few extra segments or squash matches and insert this when unexpected events occur. In my opinion this makes the fed look 2nd rate.
3 - Keep pushing Michael Elgin, Tommaso Ciampia, and Adam Cole. The roster is getting pretty sparse and these are the guys of their future. I can buy in Elgin being a legit badass. He's had some great matches especially against Davey Richards. I think Ciampa has great potential but I don't understand why he keeps losing to Jay Lethal. Nothing against Lethal but I would have had Ciampa win the TV title from Lethal. WWE tried to sign Adam Cole a few months ago. If they see potential in him then ROH needs to use that. Hey a TV title is a good start.
4 - Bolster the roster. I really thought I would see a bigger roster once they got signed by Sinclair but with the exception of Rhino and Jimmy Jacobs I'm not seeing it. Use more guys from CHIKARA, PWG, Dragongate USA and EVOLVE (if they can), CZW, or other indies. They need to bolster a very thin roster. Matt Taven looks like he has potential though I'm not sure about Q.T. Marshall winning a contract.
5 - Bring back more house shows. I'm not sure what happened to their house shows but it seems like they are doine 3 a month lately. The IPPV's are all good and well but you've got to get on the road more often. Draw in crowds and then you'll get IPPV audiences.
Just a few thoughts from my end. Any other thoughts out there?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 18:32:29 GMT -5
[quote author=subvert69 board=roh thread=11274 post=138101 time=13448947241 - Turn Kevin Steen face and turn Jim Cornette heel. Look I'm sorry everything I've seen with Steen just says the fans like him to much to boo him and Cornette just doesn't have the presence anymore to change that. I really don't think many fans care about Kevin Steen going to the syndication dinners. ROH has always had a problem keeping their champions relevant and no one is buying Kevin Steen as a heel. [/quote]
Uh...Steen pretty much is a face and Cornette is pretty much a heel. This has been the case since the beginning of the new TV show.
Agree, also they need to stop doing four weeks of post production at one time so that they don't just air those shows without telling the people what happened.
Agree with pushing Cole and Elgin. Ciampa doesn't need to be anywhere near Ring of Honor.
You're aware that most of PWG's roster IS the ROH roster, right? They can't use guys from DGUSA/Evolve because of contracts, and they have a working agreement with Chikara. Their only real hope now is that they can get their school back up and running so that they can create some new talent.
Also, since Sinclair they've signed The Young Bucks, R.D. Evans, TJ Perkins, Mike Mondo and Maria. Jacobs and Rhino aren't the only new guys, hell Jacobs isn't even new.
Doing more shows doesn't = drawing more...at all. That would just be ROH pissing away money they don't need to piss away. See: Gabe era ROH.
At this point, there's not much room for upward movement with their iPPV business. 2,500 (I believe that's the record for them) is about where it'll top out and that's not a bad number at all given the level ROH is at. Running more house shows doesn't change the iPPV buys at all.
Putting on a TV show that doesn't look like something you'd see on got-dang public access TV would, in theory. Having a show with great matches weekly is awesome, but if it looks as low budget and minor league as ROH, it hurts the appeal of paying to see that product.
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Post by marktaggart on Aug 13, 2012 18:47:56 GMT -5
Ciampa is going to grow into a big star, Switch. Give him just a little more time to find the right combination of components to "click". He's got the tools.
The problem with adding to the roster is that they need to extend their search. There are some very good wrestlers outside of the east and west coasts. There's an entire country in between, in fact. No joke, 3XW has a few guys I think could fit into the current ROH scene right now: Mark Sterling is one that comes to mind right away. There are plenty of others that just need to take a step up and make themselves known.
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Post by pikemojo on Aug 13, 2012 21:55:57 GMT -5
I really like Ciampa. He has a chance to make it big. I could see Ciampa in WWE, I would be shocked to ever see Kevin Steen in WWE or even TNA, though I do enjoy his work.
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Post by MonkeyDBain on Aug 19, 2012 14:33:57 GMT -5
I have some problems, like when did Ring of Honor become Ring of Talking??? I watched last night and got a 15 minute gab secession with Jim Cornett (Who looks great now days, lost some weight, but seems to lost his mic skills a bit) and some wanker with his hair coming out of a tophat??? And he manages Rhino, who still should never be allowed to talk on the mic. But then comes out Eddie Edwards to at least get us to a match.
And WHY IS KEVIN STEEN. THE WORLD CHAMPION!!!! WEARING A T-SHIRT AND WORK OUT SHORTS?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Only thing that made sense was the Code of Honor.
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Post by mwjergs on Aug 19, 2012 20:14:21 GMT -5
I've only actively followed ROH for the past year and a half but I've read up on their history and watched a ton of their You Tube clips.
Let me take a crack at the problems outlined here.
Talent. They really lost some top guys with Aries, Hero, Claudio, Danielson, Punk, etc. bolting for bigger paydays and exposure. While they don't have that caliber yet they do have some quality wrestlers. Being #3 they should always be in a state of pushing new talent. Cole, Ciampa, and Elgin seem ready for the next step and that's why Cole already has the TV title.
I'd like to see them settle on a more permanent roster which may seem easier than it is. I agree that there is a ton of talent out there all over. They should be more active looking for wrestlers beyond Ohio/Boston and use their position as a company with a National TV contract to their advantage.
I live in the Maryland area so I've attended the past few TV tapings. I understand the frustration from fans but it's a no brainer cost saving move. You have all your talent assemble in one spot on one night with a captive crowd and you crank out a month of television. I agree that a weekly more current show makes more sense to fans though. WCW used to do the same thing years ago in Orlando.
ROH fans have already chosen Steen to be the face and Cornette the heel even though their actions suggest that their roles would be reversed. Not so in today's wrestling. I think that ROH simply needs to focus on a different direction now that Steen has the belt. It's a common problem for years. The chase can be a very thrilling ride but what to do once you get there is often the bigger issue.
This would be the perfect time for a desperate Cornette to go outside the company to recruit a new top star to go after Steen for more than a one-off like Eddie Kingston. Cornette the traditionalist doesn't want a fat slobby guy in a t-shirt and shorts as the World champion. Steen could care less. The title is still important but they need to up the stakes a little.
Agree that Ciampa should be going over in his feud with Lethal. Jay is established and a reliable hand while Ciampa has breakout potential. Dropping undefeated streak made sense but he should be ultimately the one over in the feud. They need to finally turn Elgin. Months and endless months of teasing. Build an Elgin vs. Steen end of year match.
The Briscoes are great characters but they done all they can do in ROH. They need to put over the next great team in the tag tourney or have them win it and let them challenge other teams from the outside. Could breathe some fresh life into the division.
A few more House shows would be good but they may need to take a page out of Chikara's book and if they book less shows then they should be of greater quality. A recent show saw only half the ROH regulars there as they were matched up against local talent. Hmm, wonder who goes over there?
I think these problems are fixable. I like ROH because it's pro wrestling and not sports entertainment. Titles matter. Managers/Valets matter. Tag Teams matter. The wrestling matters. I'm fine with the gritty look even though I know the Du Burns is a toilet of a venue. I think they do a decent job dressing it up for TV. It's pro wrestling, it should be that way.
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Post by subvert69 on Aug 21, 2012 18:47:32 GMT -5
Switch Truth I really disagree with a lot of what you say.
You can say that Cornette is the heel and Steen is the face but I'm not sure that is totally true. I just watched the show from 2 weeks ago. The Main Event was Steen, Corino, and Jacobs (EVIL) vs. ANX and Lethal. I'm pretty sure that ANX and Lethal are the faces here. Their team name is EVIL, not a face name at all. After they lost Steen beat down the faces, again not a face move, a member of his team pulled out a railroad spike. In my mind Steen should be a face but to a casual fan I'm not sure that's believable with his actions.
I'm not a huge follower of PWG but looking at their roster I see you make a decent point about the rosters but I do see a fair amount of talent that has never been in ROH or not in a while (SSB, Rockness Monsters, Richocet, Chuck Taylor, Rosas, Romero, Mack, Avalon, B-Boy, etc). Some of them are probably in Gabe's feds but some are not.
I don't know the financial side of wrestling but again to me a few more house shows is a good thing. Even if you only get 200 people, that 200 times 20$ give or take plus a decent amount of merch that's sold. I do agree with mwjergs that for ROH lately it should be about quality over quantity. I went to the Cincinnati show and it was like watching a B show. Only about half the roster was their and it had the silly tag tournament that was mostly OVW guys and the team that won it was awesome but hasn't been back since their match with the Briscoes.
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Post by MonkeyDBain on Sept 1, 2012 21:51:01 GMT -5
It would also help if they worked on their production. They have HD camera's but with the lighting, it looks like I am watching old local wrestling on analog. The poor lighting, the bad interview set (who used chain link fences anymore, it is not the 90's), the crowd looks small and well, drunk, which does not help any.
They have some really good talent in the ring, but the production needs to improve vastly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 16:33:45 GMT -5
Switch Truth I really disagree with a lot of what you say. That's cool, I've got no problem with that. You can say that Cornette is the heel and Steen is the face but I'm not sure that is totally true. I just watched the show from 2 weeks ago. The Main Event was Steen, Corino, and Jacobs (EVIL) vs. ANX and Lethal. I'm pretty sure that ANX and Lethal are the faces here. Their team name is EVIL, not a face name at all. After they lost Steen beat down the faces, again not a face move, a member of his team pulled out a railroad spike. In my mind Steen should be a face but to a casual fan I'm not sure that's believable with his actions. Team name and actions aside, Steen is never treated like a heel by the ROH fans. Watch any iPPV or go to a show that Steen is on. He's the biggest babyface in the company to those fans. I'm not a huge follower of PWG but looking at their roster I see you make a decent point about the rosters but I do see a fair amount of talent that has never been in ROH or not in a while (SSB, Rockness Monsters, Richocet, Chuck Taylor, Rosas, Romero, Mack, Avalon, B-Boy, etc). Some of them are probably in Gabe's feds but some are not. Chuck Taylor and Ricochet work for Gabe. Rocky Romero was in ROH, won't go back. B-Boy doesn't really want to leave SoCal. Steen tried to get SSB looked at but ROH didn't want them. As for Peter Avalon, Willie Mack and RockNES--you're aware they're all based in SoCal and you'd have to fly them in, right? They already pay to fly in the Bucks and TJP from SoCal, and to fly in those extra guys is a lot of money for guys who may or may not do well in current ROH. My money would be on 'not', for the record. I don't know the financial side of wrestling but again to me a few more house shows is a good thing. Picture this: You're a company with not a lot of money to begin with, and now you've instated a policy where you have to fly in every guy you use on the shows, not to mention you pay per appearance. So you're flying guys in and would be potentially paying them for two shows in the same weekend. If you barely have the money to cover expenses from one show and you know you're not gonna draw a lot, what's the point of paying more money to run another show that might not draw? Even if you only get 200 people, that 200 times 20$ give or take plus a decent amount of merch that's sold. You're aware that it's hard for them to draw that in most markets (Chicago and NYC being the reliable exceptions), right? They ran Hara Arena back in April, curtained off half the building and still barely drew 200 people. I'd be shocked if they drew that. It was a hell of a show, but there's not a doubt in my mind they lost a lot of money. Hara's not a cheap building to run by any means. I do agree with mwjergs that for ROH lately it should be about quality over quantity. Kinda has to be when you don't have the money to run regularly. I went to the Cincinnati show and it was like watching a B show. Only about half the roster was their and it had the silly tag tournament that was mostly OVW guys and the team that won it was awesome but hasn't been back since their match with the Briscoes. TMDK! Those guys are awesome. I think the ROH-NOAH working agreement collapsing might have screwed over any chance of seeing them back, unfortunately. |
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Post by EpicDave on Sept 5, 2012 1:33:48 GMT -5
Been a big fan of ROH since day one, and I can't argue the fact they are struggling.
The initial business model under Gabe was to break even on house shows and crank out the profits on the DVD market. They were pretty successful back in the day, when the talent base was stronger and they ran shows infrequently enough that they could really build up the matches.
I will always remember the buildups to some of the classics- Nigel vs. Danielson, Joe vs. Kenta, Cabana vs. Homicide, etc. The tag matches were equally awesome- Aries/Strong, The Briscoes, The Kings, etc.
Right now, Steen is the only guy worth watching, IMO. At all the live shows I have seen him, he is the most engaging guy on the roster, whether he is in character or not. He pretty much walks around looking for people to talk to, and engages the ringside fans during his matches, even when he is playing the psycho killer SOB role. Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards are great in the ring but entirely devoid of marketable personalities, and these three are really carrying the singles division while the younger set develops and builds up.
The next tier- Bennett, Ciampa, Elgin, Cole, O'Reilly- good workers, but not a lot of charisma in that group either. That's why they have to rely heavily on their managers to carry their personas. Overall, there's not a killer match waiting to happen like there was back in the heyday.
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