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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 7:18:27 GMT -5
Again, the simple solution is to put your energy into supporting the companies that are doing wrestling the way you want to see it. If enough people quit blindly supporting the WWE brand regardless of content, they'll get the message. Problem is people are lazy and don't want to find out about anything that's not available for free on TV. What's the incentive for them to give ROH, PWG, Chikara and the like a look when RAW is free and they can stream the PPVs for free?
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Post by marktaggart on Nov 21, 2012 7:37:18 GMT -5
What's the incentive? Actual enjoyment of the show. I do NOT think our topic starter here falls into this category at all, but I really think some people like to be upset and agitated. They've been miserable for so long that it becomes "situation normal" to them. If we've gotten to a point where people will keep watching the same thing over and over out of habit and let it bother them, instead of taking a few minutes to look for alternatives, then we've got a bigger problem than the WWE here.
So yeah, we've got big problems here.
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Post by Bazzy on Nov 22, 2012 5:34:30 GMT -5
WWE has been poor for many years now . They know SADLY there is no real threat from any other federations . They put out , whatever wwe want . How many of us ? . Say that was rubbish or awful , yet tuned in to the next RAW/Smackdown and have been doing it (well I have) for about 30 years .
As for why work for the WWE ? . Its the biggest and I'm guessing the best paid wrestling company ? . Worldwide brand , seem by most worldwide countries . I should imagine , its just like any other job , Take orders and doing what they say . If you WONT do it , I am sure there is THOUSANDS willing to do .
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Post by jeromy1983 on Nov 22, 2012 20:20:26 GMT -5
I actually enjoy WWE these days. My 5 year old is getting into wrestling and it's a great bonding experience to sit and watch wrestling with him and argue who will win and who will lose. I find myself watching it like I used to when I was little, just sitting back and enjoying the show instead of looking for things to complain about. As for why want to work for WWE? Aside from the other points made, how about exposure? Sure alot of guys are only around for a bit, but after being on national tv and going back to the indies the promoters will pay them more and bill them as the top talent. How many times have you seen an indie flyer that promotes the show as featuring former WWE/WCW/TNA wrestlers. I still watch some indie wrestling, but not like I used to. My favorite indie era was 02-06, when all the top indie guys are now some of the top guys in WWE and TNA. I say Vince gives Punk and Bryan and hour in the main event at Wrestlemania.
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Post by chewey on Nov 23, 2012 18:02:06 GMT -5
Let me make my point alittle simpler. Why would you strive and work your ass off in the Indies then turn around and become a wwe jackass! Money isn't everything there is a thing called pride. Obviously these people have no pride in themselves. Money and fame is great but never sell yourself short. Seriously look at what the evil wwe empire did to Adrian Adonis, Terry Taylor and his red rooster crap, hell they even turned one of the most feared tag teams ever The Sheepherders into The Bushwhackers. The wwe has a long history of turning great wrestlers into fools that only get lost in the talent pool. See, this post would have made a lot more sense if the title of the thread was just "Why wrestle?" and left out the "in WWE" part. Because I cannot fathom why anyone in 2012 would bother scratching a career in professional wrestling unless their ultimate goal was to get to the WWE. The only exceptions would be if you were a jaded ex-WWE or ex-WCW employee, or if you're a part-time person with a "real" job who only does professional wrestling as a hobby on weekends. I'll elaborate just a little on what Switch-Truth is probably up in arms about. Most independent wrestlers work crappy jobs Monday through Friday to support their wrestling habit, where they train hard and drive ten hours round trip on a weekend to get paid like $20. Chris Hero talked on Colt Cabana's podcast about how he traveled long and far just to get $5 on many occasions just to build up experience. I'm sure Hero would have the same reaction as Switch-Truth if he were told about how he could keep his pride by not signing that WWE developmental deal. You'd have to be nuts if you did that kind of thing just for the passion in the business and had no desire to join the WWE. A few guys, like Colt Cabana, and some ex-WWE guys can make a comfortable living on the independents, but if we didn't have guys striving to be WWE superstars, we'd be left with an independent scene of guys who do this just for fun and really aren't very good at it. EDIT: The problem that WWE has with crappy characters in a talented but floundering mid-card is that they have the task of appealing to the "mainstream" consumer crowd. I think the argument that a lot of us have about wasted wrestling talent is the same as those college-aged hipsters who complain about the mainstream music scene and go out of their ways to find indie rock stars and brag about how they listen to much better music than the rest of us know better to find. WWE is all about the bottom line - great in-ring product is only one part of their bottom line that appeals to one segment of their fanbase. We might not enjoy it, but the hardcore wrestling fans tend to still stick with the product far longer than casual fans do. So yes, great wrestling is out there if you try to find it, but the "smart" mark community is the wrestling world's equivalent to hipsters. Wow, I feel so horrible calling myself a wrestling hipster, yet that analogy seems to hit the nail on the head...
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Post by marktaggart on Nov 25, 2012 13:13:50 GMT -5
chewey,
I think the point that is being made by declining revenue and TV ratings is that even the WWE doesn't seem to know how to be the WWE anymore. What they are doing is building a brand and ignoring the building of individual personalities to carry that brand. They are NOT appealing to the mainstream consumer crowd like they used to. It's not being a "hipster" to just want to see something that is good and makes sense from week to week. When people post things like this thread it is out of the frustration of seeing all of these tools in place and a company that seems to lack the desire to use them to their greatest advantage. If this was TNA you'd just shrug and say "never had it, never will". But this is the company that revolutionized pro wrestling sports entertainment, and they're acting like----kind of like the old TNA.
I could probably write about 10,000 words on this, but I won't. People do not all have the same motivations in life. Some are free spirits who like to live by their own rules. Those rules may not include the "money, fame, fortune". They may want to just entertain the way they want without having some agent say "five minutes and work the arm for three of them", they may be single dudes who don't want a family and are cool with a studio apartment and getting to sleep in until noon every day. They may want the freedom to come and go as the please and not deal with the corporate hassle. Maybe they just want to work in Japan. There is a tradeoff involved in that decision, and what they choose to that may seem crazy to some, but it every bit as valid as the prevalent cultural mindset.
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Post by chewey on Nov 25, 2012 15:28:12 GMT -5
MT, no need for a 1000 word essay. I am just a fan who loves wrestling and you have dabbled in it (you took the Superfly Leap right?) therefore I will gladly defer to your opinion. My only point is that independent wrestlers do not have as glamorous of lives as some seem to think they do. I will back off from saying more than that.
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Post by marktaggart on Nov 25, 2012 15:45:50 GMT -5
My past is shrouded in mystery, Chewey. I prefer to keep it that way. I've seen some really great wrestlers who actually just enjoy that vagabond lifestyle. Actually, there are pro wrestlers and sports entertainers now. The old style wrestler (a dying breed) just wants to be his own boss and be out on the road, no matter what the sacrifice. The sports entertainer is a different breed. The mindset is entirely different. In some ways the successful ones are tougher (mentally, at least) because they can work around the politics and corporate atmosphere and still manage to perform. I think the great work Colt Cabana has done on his Art Of Wrestling podcast has given a lot of people a closer look and (hopefully) a greater respect for what the life of an independent wrestler is all about. ON that note, go to www.digitalcolt.com and buy the premium podcast. It's six hours of bonus stuff, including a very realistic, "curtain pulled back", warts and all interview with Kevin Steen about how hard it really is. Easily worth the paltry $4.99 he's charging over there.
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Post by goblue168 on Nov 25, 2012 16:03:50 GMT -5
mt brings up a nice point about the curtain being pulled back..i sometimes wish the curtain would get pulled shut again...sigh...imo,the wwe has a mindset of being a billion dollar international company.the bottom line is the bottom line..to me,it just cant be that way..its not walmart,its not mcdonalds,its a professional wrestling promotion.its a type of buisness that operates on a completely different set of rules by sheer definition. if,again from my point of view,you were breaking into the buisness today,the ultimate goal would be get a huge contract with wwe..maybe its comparable to the minor league baseball players..learning your craft,getting ready for the call to the show.i in no way mean to inply that any wrestling promotion other than wwe is minor league,cuz i know thats not true.its just an analagy that seems to fit.pro wrestlers imo are true athletes,going at it sometimes every nite,simply for the love of the sport..that happens nowhere else,not in football,basketball,soccer,hockey or baseball.. maybe its time for a leadership change at the wwe...someone who wants to run a wrestling promotion,not run for congress
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Post by Bazzy on Nov 28, 2012 4:26:58 GMT -5
Trouble is goblue168 . Vince bought out the competition , so there is no one to really challenge them ? . So you can do what you want . Standards drop then . Everyone says its rubbish/poor most weeks (including me) but comes back next week/month/years
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