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Post by executioner on Apr 29, 2015 8:21:36 GMT -5
I agree, it is quite possible Corgan can improve entrance themes and improve connections with the entertainment field. Unfortunately, TNA has had 13 years or so to do this and has and major music and sports stars helping them. Sadly it has not helped. TNA has LESS visibility now then it has in quite some time.
I wanted TNA to succeed, I really did. Unfortunately, TNA does not seem to interested in succeeding. Oh yes TNA says all of the right things, but the facts speak for themselves.
I wish Corgan luck. His heart seems in the right place.
And while not wishing to be deliberately provocative, but how in the blue heck can the fans overlook/forgive TNA for its NUMEROUS errors?!
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Post by executioner on May 5, 2015 9:40:05 GMT -5
Pro Wrestling has become on giant feud between the fans and the "bookers". Biggest bad guys in wrestling are the WWE writers, Vince, Stephanie, HHH etc...then they wonder why no one gets over. You raise a good point. I realize WWE and TNA writers have zero knowledge of wrestling history, but they would be wise to examine Memphis wrestling legend Sputnik Monroe, the wrestling focal point of the integration of wrestling fans . Without going into too much detail, wrestling fans disliked Monroe for integration despite it being the promotion that really led the issue. The promotion got more paying fans, Monroe got cheers and boos depending on the side of the arena. A win-win. Oh goodness. I would take Cornette as a booker over any of the current selection of nit wits of TV writers/bookers. |
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Post by guiltyparty on May 5, 2015 10:06:02 GMT -5
I would take Cornette as booker in an instant... Provided I could keep him from having direct contact with anyone else, since that seems to be a recipe for disaster.
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Post by executioner on May 5, 2015 10:26:42 GMT -5
I would take Cornette as booker in an instant... Provided I could keep him from having direct contact with anyone else, since that seems to be a recipe for disaster. Jim Ross would agree with you (per his podcast). Ross thinks Cornette, with a team Corny likes, would make a great creative time. Just let someone else handle the talent side. WWE and TNA only seem to be able to tell stories by sheer accident (i.e. Daniel Bryan). Their genuine efforts very often fall flat. |
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Post by on_the_edge on May 9, 2015 7:48:13 GMT -5
I agree, it is quite possible Corgan can improve entrance themes and improve connections with the entertainment field. Unfortunately, TNA has had 13 years or so to do this and has and major music and sports stars helping them. Sadly it has not helped. TNA has LESS visibility now then it has in quite some time. I wanted TNA to succeed, I really did. Unfortunately, TNA does not seem to interested in succeeding. Oh yes TNA says all of the right things, but the facts speak for themselves. I wish Corgan luck. His heart seems in the right place. And while not wishing to be deliberately provocative, but how in the blue heck can the fans overlook/forgive TNA for its NUMEROUS errors?! I would say there might be a difference between Billy and others TNA has worked before. One thing is they might not be as big and/or connected as him. The other is how much they really love wrestling as he does. They might have been using TNA to reach a different market but not really interested in helping TNA. Billy should be different. The same way people forgive companies, like WWE, or people they like or love. No one can change the past. They can only improve in the present and future. I mean on the off chance TNA is putting on some of the best wrestling in years of any promotion should people keep pointing out their past mistakes over and over. Yes the mistakes are part of TNA and one can not forget them completely. But it is not fair to judge them always by those mistakes. It is "what have you done for me lately" business. We would not let them live off their laurels so why punish them for their past sins. |
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Post by Vegas on May 9, 2015 8:07:33 GMT -5
Billy Corgan was at the first-ever PWG show I attended (Threemendous II.)
If I remember correctly, Excalibur had Corgan sitting next to him to do guest commentary for one match that night and Corgan didn't say one thing?
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Post by executioner on May 9, 2015 10:06:11 GMT -5
I can appreciate your optimism for TNA, and your willingness to forgive. Truthfully this company has spent the better part of 7 years working backwards, and getting smaller. It had so much potential.....
Wrestling is a NOW business. Just like the NFL, UFC, etc. But you have to make the NOW be worth watching and taking note of. WWE does it sometimes. TNA regularly drops the ball.
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Post by on_the_edge on May 9, 2015 10:34:18 GMT -5
No argument there. But from my perspective not getting the most out of story lines and the such is a problem in wrestling over all. Yes more so in TNA but there have been plenty of times outside of TNA that things have not been as great as I think they could have been.
One thing with TNA is I think they and us the fans overstated where they really were and should be. As a small company growing we thought they were better than they were actually were. Partly because we wanted some competition for WWE since the death of ECW and WCW. In some ways they have slipped backwards but in some ways it is maybe right where they really should be for a company in its 13th year. I know some people like to laugh at TNA for where they are but there are a lot of promotions that would love to "fall" to the place TNA is at.
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Post by executioner on May 11, 2015 11:47:41 GMT -5
No argument there. But from my perspective not getting the most out of story lines and the such is a problem in wrestling over all. Yes more so in TNA but there have been plenty of times outside of TNA that things have not been as great as I think they could have been. One thing with TNA is I think they and us the fans overstated where they really were and should be. As a small company growing we thought they were better than they were actually were. Partly because we wanted some competition for WWE since the death of ECW and WCW. In some ways they have slipped backwards but in some ways it is maybe right where they really should be for a company in its 13th year. I know some people like to laugh at TNA for where they are but there are a lot of promotions that would love to "fall" to the place TNA is at. You raise some interesting and fair points. TNA filled, or at least tried to, fill the void left by WCW/ECW. It did lead to high expectations. Several national TV deals in the following years followed, further bolstering the expectations. Where should TNA be sitting is a good question. I honestly think it should be higher than it currently teeters. In many ways TNA is the product of its errors. Unlike WWE, TNA has no cushion for its errors--if it had any cushion that was burned a LONG time ago. While there are certainly some indy feds that would like to "fall" where TNA is at, I would be just a harsh a critic of any fed that has consistently blown its moments, made one bad choice after another, and has not learned any lessons from its successes or failures. That falls at the feet of Jarrett, Carter, Hogan, Bischoff, Russo, Big John, etc. In fact I would list AJ Styles departure to summarize TNA and where TNA is at. Really no other example is needed. WWE is the king of the block. Period. ROH is the closest thing to #2, but is probably a darn good indy feeder fed at this point. TNA is lost somewhere below ROH, but above Lucha Underground. TNA has PPV access, but its how show business is deplorable and is frequently outdrawn by smaller indys that lack TV access. I am not sure what to qualify a strictly promotion like LU. After that you get the wild west of monthly (or less frequently) indy shows. |
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Post by on_the_edge on May 14, 2015 15:04:40 GMT -5
No argument there. But from my perspective not getting the most out of story lines and the such is a problem in wrestling over all. Yes more so in TNA but there have been plenty of times outside of TNA that things have not been as great as I think they could have been. One thing with TNA is I think they and us the fans overstated where they really were and should be. As a small company growing we thought they were better than they were actually were. Partly because we wanted some competition for WWE since the death of ECW and WCW. In some ways they have slipped backwards but in some ways it is maybe right where they really should be for a company in its 13th year. I know some people like to laugh at TNA for where they are but there are a lot of promotions that would love to "fall" to the place TNA is at. You raise some interesting and fair points. TNA filled, or at least tried to, fill the void left by WCW/ECW. It did lead to high expectations. Several national TV deals in the following years followed, further bolstering the expectations. Where should TNA be sitting is a good question. I honestly think it should be higher than it currently teeters. In many ways TNA is the product of its errors. Unlike WWE, TNA has no cushion for its errors--if it had any cushion that was burned a LONG time ago. While there are certainly some indy feds that would like to "fall" where TNA is at, I would be just a harsh a critic of any fed that has consistently blown its moments, made one bad choice after another, and has not learned any lessons from its successes or failures. That falls at the feet of Jarrett, Carter, Hogan, Bischoff, Russo, Big John, etc. In fact I would list AJ Styles departure to summarize TNA and where TNA is at. Really no other example is needed. WWE is the king of the block. Period. ROH is the closest thing to #2, but is probably a darn good indy feeder fed at this point. TNA is lost somewhere below ROH, but above Lucha Underground. TNA has PPV access, but its how show business is deplorable and is frequently outdrawn by smaller indys that lack TV access. I am not sure what to qualify a strictly promotion like LU. After that you get the wild west of monthly (or less frequently) indy shows. Yes TNA probably should be higher than they are right now. But that would be if they had taken a slower growth path than the aggressive one they took. Sometimes people forget that WWE/WWF/WWWF had been around in one form or another for about 30 years before their real boom. THIRTY YEARS. TNA is not even half way there yet. And while WWE was growing they did not have a giant company to compete with and block their growth like TNA does. WWE has been able to survive their mistakes due to slow growth and then later due to fat bank account. Vince for all the praise on his wrestling knowledge it was basic business and aggressive business tactics that helped push him and WWE to greatness. I feel AJ leaving was like Hogan leaving WWE and Flair leaving NWA/WCW. It was best for the wrestler and the company. In all three cases they had done about all they could where they were. To breath fresh air into their career they needed new challenges. New scenery. AJ is big right now but would not be there if he had stayed in TNA and that is only partly due to TNA's place right now. A big part of AJ's popularity right now is joining Bullet Club. If he had stayed in TNA and joined Aces and 8's or say BDC it would not have the same effect. Heck if he did join one of them people would complain he did not need a faction. But those same fans love him in BC. Go figure. I agree with your placement but I think TNA is a bit over RoH due to TV exposure here in the US and around the world. Talent wise I would MAYBE give a slight edge to RoH. As far as the indy shows outdrawing TNA argument as I always like to point out, let's see those indys do it on a more frequent basis and more important do it on the road. It is pretty easy to build a loyal following when you do one show a month or so and in the same place. Even more so when you can bring in different name guys all the time to keep things fresh. Then the shows are more about the special guest than just the show itself. |
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