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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 13:33:43 GMT -5
I really do not understand the apparent outrage over the move. I guess if you're willing to stomach slow motion sequences, random dance offs and the thumb up the ass routine, you can tolerate anything. |
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Post by Pete on Aug 12, 2017 13:48:12 GMT -5
I'm not "outraged," really, just calling as I see it: a dumb, contrived spot.
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Post by Sam Fain on Aug 12, 2017 17:23:55 GMT -5
So... When does the set get released?
Seriously, tho, I think the hot button issue of the "reality" of wrestling and outrage over dick suplexes, invisible grenades, dance offs etc. misses a vital point in the modern incarnation of professional wrestling. The art form (and yes, it is an art) has broadened to encompass many different styles and some people prefer one style to another. And that's fine. Not everything will appeal to everyone and some things will only appeal to a minority. In many ways it's similar to the death match boom of the 90s. Not a lot of weed whacker spots these days (and we're better for it). Nobody is exposing the business by pulling off a tag team assisted Canadian Destroyer. The business has been laid bare for a long time. Even before Vince was saying "Get it?".
The bottom line is, there is a place for the silly spots that stretch the bounds of credulity. Just as there is a place for Makabe and Ishii slug fests, that, if they occurred in real life would result in broken jaws, concussions, and TKOs. Some of the spots that Lesnar does would be unbelievable 30-40 years ago and old timers would berate what he's done to the business. Even 90s All Japan and modern New Japan (two of the "realer" promotions to grace the business and art form) do, on occasion, stretch the bounds of believability with what they do.
I recently sat live in the building and witnessed a great match between LuFisto and Solo Darling. It was a heated brawl that spent a lot of time out of the ring and felt very "real" and hate-filled. The finish saw LuFisto cut off Solo's "tail" and get DQ'd. Solo and the official sold it as if LuFisto had actually cut off Solo's tail. As though it were really attached. It took me out, admittedly. But it didn't tarnish the great match that came before. It just wasn't for me. And that's ok.
In an art form that has so many different variations in this day and age, I think it's absolutely acceptable to say "it's not for me", but don't judge someone for doing it or liking it. Because, tho it may not be for you, it doesn't mean it doesn't hold value for some.
That same SHIMMER match I was talking about, a 9 year old girl was sitting in the front row next to me and she ate the spot up and booed the shit out of LuFisto for it and cheered for Solo. And I'll be damned if I'm going to take that enjoyment away from her. The same way no one took my enjoyment of Hogan "hulking" up and taking out King Kong Bundy at WM2, bad ribs and all. Yeah, dick-plexes and invisible grenade spots are out there, but I don't think Joey Ryan is exposing the business or ruining the business, he's just expanding on it and taking it some place new and different. And I get that people would be hesitant to accept that or not accept it at all, but for every G1 loving junkie like myself, there are plenty of CHIKARA, DDT, etc. loving folks out there enjoying and laughing and getting enjoyment out of such whimsical, fantastical, "unrealistic" spots.
In the end, it's all a work and we're all marks. Like it or not. Let folks enjoy what they like and feel free to say it's not for me to the stuff you don't, but don't say it's not wrestling or call bullshit on something that, ultimately, is all a fairy tale in the end.
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Post by Tournament Master on Aug 12, 2017 17:38:06 GMT -5
Great post by Sam Fain that complete captures the way I think wrestling fans should all be respected for what they like out of the artform. Wrestling continues to evolve just like other forms of entertainment. Sure there are still the more old school styles, but at the same time their are the more progressive styles of wrestling like Chikara, DDT, Kaiju, etc. I can appreciate everything in wrestling (even death matches...to a degree), but prefer the comedic and absurd style personally. While I know not everyone can appreciate every style the same way, I hope they can atleast respect that others do like that and its adding to business not killing it. I'm sure deep down Jim Cornette even appreciates the ludicrous side of wrestling, but it fits his brand to rail against it and helps him get over with his target audience more...and I can appreciate it. Modern wrestling everyone! |
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Post by TTX on Aug 12, 2017 17:55:02 GMT -5
It's funny a bit to me about Cornette railing about the ludicrousness of wrestling while singing the praises of Memphis which often was Chikara before Chikara.
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Post by Pete on Aug 12, 2017 18:12:52 GMT -5
It's funny a bit to me about Cornette railing about the ludicrousness of wrestling while singing the praises of Memphis which often was Chikara before Chikara. Eh. Only when Lawler was booking. (And since this is a lot of people's go-to "gotcha" response when talking about Cornette, I'll be pre-emptive: he never booked a "3000-year old mummy" in Smoky Mountain. He booked a giant guy who either *thought* he was a 3000-year old mummy, or was pretending to think he was a 3000-year old mummy to throw off his opponents. Not defending Prince Kharis as high art but there's a big, big difference between that and a real mummy). |
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Post by Vegas on Aug 12, 2017 18:46:36 GMT -5
I'm not "outraged," really, just calling as I see it: a dumb, contrived spot. no worries, it is cool my friend as we just disagreed on this issue. I did use the word "apparent" before outrage because on the labtop screen it really sort of looked like posted diatribes. Pete, I really respect and like the work you did with those NWA bootleg sets and your general wrestling knowledge- if there was ever an opening on the LOW team then you would be my first personal choice. I liked hanging out with you in Cleveland and in Philadelphia but missed seeing you this past Summer in Jamestown. If you are able to make it to Pittsburgh or wherever we are at next Summer than the first beer is on me my friend. |
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Post by pikemojo on Aug 12, 2017 20:04:16 GMT -5
I'm sure this won't really change the minds of those that don't care for the move but below is clip that better illustrates what Vegas is talking about. In this video it looks much less like the opponent is intentionally grabbing his own tag partner around the waist. More like he is knocked loopy and is folded over his partner. When performed like this (and moves are always done perfectly in LOW) I can buy it... it pushes the limits of what I will accept in pro wrestling but it's still just barely believable for me. |
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Post by Vegas on Aug 12, 2017 20:26:10 GMT -5
I'm sure this won't really change the minds of those that don't care for the move but below is clip that better illustrates what Vegas is talking about. In this video it looks much less like the opponent is intentionally grabbing his own tag partner around the waist. More like he is knocked loopy and is folded over his partner. When performed like this (and moves are always done perfectly in LOW) I can buy it... it pushes the limits of what I will accept in pro wrestling but it's still just barely believable for me. that's cool, the tag finisher by how they won their match in that clip is called DEATH COMES CALLING (and there are two different versions of it- both of which I included on my rough drafts.) Because in DEATH COMES CALLING it is Kerry Awful scoring the win for the Carnies as he is the one doing the Boston Crab, on my rough draft I out DEATH COMES CALLING on Kerry Awful's card and I put the controversial FORCE DESTROYER on Nick Iggy's card.  |
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Post by Sam Fain on Aug 12, 2017 20:35:22 GMT -5
Man, I really am stoked for this set. Mostly for Trevor Lee, I admit. He's someone I've wanted in the game for nigh on 2 years, but I love it when I get introduced to new indy talent or recognize a name on a poster or thread. Looking forward to the pre-order!
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