Legends Expansion VII Discussion

[Deleted]

Apr 7, 2021 5:05:42 GMT -5 Shon Maxx said:

Gama made his debut, beating Matt Cross by count out after hurling him over the top rope. I also read in Shooters how The Turk would defeat opponents by picking them up and hurling them to the mat, or to the floor, like a sack of potatoes. These got me thinking of possibly making titles change hands by count out. This makes sense to me since you roll Pin for CO's anyway, and since the option occurs more often on the Ring chart. Plus it'd suck to beat a champ senseless, only to not win the belt because he fell to the floor, especially if the champ chose to 'sit out' the count.

What does everyone else think?

I like the idea. Titles have been able to change on countout in Japan for as long as I can remember.

[Pete]

The "titles can only change on a pinfall or submission" thing didn't start until 1955 in the U.S. and never started, period, in Japan or Mexico or Europe (to say nothing of boxing or UFC). So I say go for it.

I've never really understood the kayfabe reasoning for a title not changing on a countout to begin with.

[Pete]

And don't even get me started on titles changing in 3-ways and 4-ways that aren't elimination, but that's a rant for another time.

"To be the man, you've got to beat the man or at least beat another man who's in the same match as the man." --Ric Flair approximately 0 times, ever.

[Gunslinger]

I think the title changing hands on a count out is fine with the vintage guys since their style doesn't feature a lot of out of the ring action. In the Pacific Wrestling Club, Rikidozan retained his belt via count out in his first defense so Dick Hutton might have grounds for another title match down the line.

[justme]

Apr 7, 2021 5:05:42 GMT -5 Shon Maxx said:

Gama made his debut, beating Matt Cross by count out after hurling him over the top rope. I also read in Shooters how The Turk would defeat opponents by picking them up and hurling them to the mat, or to the floor, like a sack of potatoes. These got me thinking of possibly making titles change hands by count out. This makes sense to me since you roll Pin for CO's anyway, and since the option occurs more often on the Ring chart. Plus it'd suck to beat a champ senseless, only to not win the belt because he fell to the floor, especially if the champ chose to 'sit out' the count.

What does everyone else think?

I always felt that the CO/DQ thing seemed like a rather obvious part of the "make it good and keep them coming back" mentality of wrestling as it does nothing (to me) except help perpetuate angles, rematches and get butts in the seats... I understand why all of that is important, mind you (80's IV Horsemen era Flair title reign is absolute proof it works, lol), but have for a long time considered changing my LOW world back to "WCCW rules" for championships... And with my upcoming reboot have decided to finally do it and move forward (backward?) with it...

I do think that todays era of wrestling here in the U.S. makes it a bit harder to take that backwards step as most places have few to no rules and brawling outside the ring is so encouraged that both DQ's and CO's are virtually obsolete, lol

Anuywho that's my 2 cents...

[Swarm]

Apr 7, 2021 9:12:17 GMT -5 justme said:

Apr 7, 2021 5:05:42 GMT -5 Shon Maxx said:

I do think that todays era of wrestling here in the U.S. makes it a bit harder to take that backwards step as most places have few to no rules and brawling outside the ring is so encouraged that both DQ's and CO's are virtually obsolete, lol

Anuywho that's my 2 cents...

Look no further than AEW who is openly attempting to change the world of wrestling (whether it’s a good or bad idea is subjective - but makes for a good debate).

www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/m5ni4r/since_their_debut_in_may_2019_aew_only_has_had_1/

Since their debut in May 2019, AEW only has had 1 DQ finish, 3 Count-Out finishes and 4 Time Limit finishes.
DQ Finish:

Peter Avalon vs Brandon Cutler (Dark #56)
Count-Out Finish:

Peter Avalon vs Brandon Cutler (Dark #52)
Ryo Mizunami vs Aja Kong (Eliminator Tournament Japan Bracket Semi Final)
Michael Nakazawa vs Brandon Cutler (Dark #35)
Time Limit Finish:

Cody vs Orange Cassidy (Dynamite #55)
Chris Jericho vs Jungle Boy (Dynamite #12)
Jon Moxley vs PAC (Dynamite #4)
Cody vs Darby Allin (Fyter Fest)
It's interesting that 3 of those DQ/Count-Out finishes were used as part of the Brandon Cutler/Peter Avalon storyline.

[Bazzy]

Only ordered my cards Vintage , Indies & Promoter Prime (all 3) on Thursday April 1st they arrived TODAY . Yeah 6 days to the UK . Abit puzzling how some orders take days and some about 6 weeks . Anyway I'm happy

[tystates]

Rob's post showing the AEW dq results shows how few of these outcomes are used. When they are used it's only for story purposes. Otherwise no one gets dqed or counted out anymore. I could say there's no need for a dq rating on cards anymore. The player can just call a dq during a match as a way to further their storyline. The dq's stand out even more now because there are so few of them and then they just look bad because way worse stuff has happened in matches and there wasn't a dq then.

[MHardcore]

I definitely like less screwball endings. When not used 3 or 4 times a show and pulled out every other month or so, they actually serve their “purpose” more.
But I do love the DQs on the FG cards. Feud starters a lot of the time. Sometimes creating great but unexpected rivalries. I also don’t roll a lot of DQs ever since I started doing the double roll on DQs as suggested on this board.

[TTX]

I like them to a point but as some promoters have in their feds...they can happen too often and who wants a show where 1/2 the matches end in disqualification especially for silly stuff like brawling outside the ring.