Uncharted Territory: Episode 52!

[Cory Olson]

Oct 24, 2021 15:25:30 GMT -5 throwingtoasters said:

Great episode! Thanks for answering my question!

Thanks for sending it in, Grant! We received it right before we recorded Episode 51 (the basketball episode). I told Chad that I thought we'd wait on yours and make it the main event for Episode 52.

["Emperor Norton" (Mark T)]

Fascinating listen to hear the finishing touches being put on the recent four pack a s Promoter Prime cards. A card like Bully Busick presents a conundrum and is always something I have to consider when I make my own cards. As a record holding power lifter he was most likely always among the strongest guys in any locker room he was in. But you also have to consider his place on the card and on the historical scale. I can see the reasoning behind -1 but you could also make a concession somewhere else on the card and go -2 (which is what I'm doing for when I use him in my Texas territory).

Then there's the case of a guy like The Grappler who did different stuff at different points and seemed to change up his act a little from territory to territory. Do you pick one and go with it? What should the finisher be with a guy who used like six? And do you include a signature move even if it's lame?

Anyway, all of that makes for good podcast material. But I suspect it's being recorded so there's a record of who made the decisions that cause new message board debates or complaints. Hope you do one of these for the NEXT expansion after Memphis, the Indianapolis set. Can't wait to hear the thought process on Dr Jerry Graham Jr, Bulldog Don Kent, Dick The Bruiser, and Yukon Moose Cholak.*


....oops, was I not supposed to spoil that?

(*useless trivia edit: the four men listed were involved in the tag team main event of the first live pro wrestling event I ever attended)

[TTX]

I'd be so happy with that I don't know what I'd do if they ever announced that set.

[j]

Oct 24, 2021 16:47:48 GMT -5 "Emperor Norton" (Mark T) said:

Fascinating listen to hear the finishing touches being put on the recent four pack a s Promoter Prime cards. A card like Bully Busick presents a conundrum and is always something I have to consider when I make my own cards. As a record holding power lifter he was most likely always among the strongest guys in any locker room he was in. But you also have to consider his place on the card and on the historical scale. I can see the reasoning behind -1 but you could also make a concession somewhere else on the card and go -2 (which is what I'm doing for when I use him in my Texas territory).

Which brings the question, what if we ever got someone like Ted Arcidi or Bill Kazmaier? How could you not give them a -4 or even -5 power?

[Pete]

One thing about the Bully is that outside of maybe Georgia his power wasn't really brought up or utilized in his matches. It almost definitely was never even talked about in his brief WWF run. So it's pretty easy to justify ignoring it--Nick Busick was a competitive powerlifter, but the Bully wasn't.

With Arcidi and Kazmaier whose whole gimmick was being the World's Strongest Man--yeah, you go with the -4 or -5 but penalize them in other ways. They're an easy +3 or even +4 Agility. They had no stamina so their PINs would be a 7(4) if not an 8(5). They didn't exactly have a wide array of offense so you could give them a covered Level 3 move on their L2O #5, or an uncovered Level 2 move on their L3O #1. And of course you could drop an "(ag)" on their L2O #1 if you really want to take them down a notch.

[Sinestro24]

Been listening since day 1. Thanks for the hours of entertainment, look forward to the next 52 weeks!

[Cory Olson]

Oct 24, 2021 20:59:11 GMT -5 Pete said:

With Arcidi and Kazmaier whose whole gimmick was being the World's Strongest Man--yeah, you go with the -4 or -5 but penalize them in other ways. They're an easy +3 or even +4 Agility. They had no stamina so their PINs would be a 7(4) if not an 8(5). They didn't exactly have a wide array of offense so you could give them a covered Level 3 move on their L2O #5, or an uncovered Level 2 move on their L3O #1. And of course you could drop an "(ag)" on their L2O #1 if you really want to take them down a notch.

I've actually thought about guys like Kazmaier and Arcidi and what we would do. Pete summarized this well! They can have -4 or -5 Power ratings but then terrible offense, high PIN ratings, bad charts, etc. to reflect shorter careers and/or lower pushes on the card.

["Emperor Norton" (Mark T)]

Oct 25, 2021 12:07:30 GMT -5 Cory Olson said:

Oct 24, 2021 20:59:11 GMT -5 Pete said:

With Arcidi and Kazmaier whose whole gimmick was being the World's Strongest Man--yeah, you go with the -4 or -5 but penalize them in other ways. They're an easy +3 or even +4 Agility. They had no stamina so their PINs would be a 7(4) if not an 8(5). They didn't exactly have a wide array of offense so you could give them a covered Level 3 move on their L2O #5, or an uncovered Level 2 move on their L3O #1. And of course you could drop an "(ag)" on their L2O #1 if you really want to take them down a notch.

I've actually thought about guys like Kazmaier and Arcidi and what we would do. Pete summarized this well! They can have -4 or -5 Power ratings but then terrible offense, high PIN ratings, bad charts, etc. to reflect shorter careers and/or lower pushes on the card.

......

Thread drift a little, but look at Man-Mointain in COTG, or the often forgotten Cyclops character, as examples of how to handle physicay powerful characters that aren't necessarily "good" wrestlers. Mountain moreso of course. I'd say he would practically be the template for either of those guys.

[Cory Olson]

Oct 25, 2021 12:16:36 GMT -5 "Emperor Norton" (Mark T) said:

Thread drift a little, but look at Man-Mointain in COTG, or the often forgotten Cyclops character, as examples of how to handle physicay powerful characters that aren't necessarily "good" wrestlers. Mountain moreso of course. I'd say he would practically be the template for either of those guys.

Great examples, Emperor Norton! I was thinking of Man-Mountain or even Brute 2090. Granted, Brute has the good defense but in singles matches, his offense (particularly Level 2) was just alright.

And to derail this thread further, I remember marking out big time when I first saw Cyclopes' stats! The mechanics Tom used were definitely influent for Andre the Giant's card, as well as several other big-man characters, both official and bootleg. He is definitely not forgotten by me. He and Turge had a decent reign as Galaxian Tag Team champions in my last year actively running my GWF.

[Pete]

Call it perverse but I actually really loved booking Cyclopes in singles matches. They took forever, but the slow chop-down-the-tree psychology had some appeal if I set aside enough time for it. And of course if he rolled that +7 finisher (I think he was the first guy whose finisher rating could go past +6), look out.

For guys who no-sell a lot but don't really win that much, I always loaded up the L1D but had it get weaker the farther down on defense you got. I talked about the flexibility of this game as compared to other wrestling card games, and that's another example--there's almost no rating or setting or strength level anywhere on a card (whether that setting/level is positive or negative) that can't be offset elsewhere if you need to.