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Post by swarm on Mar 19, 2012 8:41:20 GMT -5
Why the heck do you have to be in the WWE to be an icon. Thats like saying Giant baba isn't an icon cause he wasn't in the WWF/WWE or Antonio Inoki. This is a great point that imo actually damages any argument that Sting is an icon, even though you're intending to support that he is with it. Who is Giant Baba an icon with? Japanese fans. Hardcore wrestling fans. But no one else. Especially in America. Meanwhile, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Andre the Giant, Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker, HHH, Macho Man, Cena are all world wide household names. Baba and Inoki aren't. Sting definitely is not. To be an icon I think you have to be able to break beyond the hardcore audience, and make your name with the general public. Icon should be reserved for only the precious few truly deserving of it. Go out and ask 10 people if they've ever hear of "Sting" and 9/10 of them will think music, not wrestling. Sting isn't even the most popular guy named Sting on the planet! Chew on that. |
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Post by pikemojo on Mar 19, 2012 10:05:05 GMT -5
I do think that going out and asking a bunch of people who Sting is would have worked in '96-'98ish. Certainly not now. Ric Flair wouldn't fair well in that kind of test. Neither would Triple H. Give Cena 15 years out of the spotlight and see how well his name resounds. Honestly, Stone Cold's name has faded greatly the past few years. Undertaker's name has faded and he still is sort of around WWE. The Road Warriors certainly aren't recognizable to casual wrestling fans.
Saying that someone needs to be recognizable to casual or non-wrestling fans isn't a fair judge of what an ICON is. If that is the standard we use then our icons will be dropping like flies because the casual fan has an extremely short memory. Any wrestling fan from the 90s would know Sting.
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Post by Justin Case on Mar 19, 2012 18:52:15 GMT -5
well, are we using the word Icon for just the world? Or the world of wrestling?
General public? Hulk Hogan would certainly be the Icon then, as even non pro wrestling fans know of him. Andre the Giant too perhaps.
Cena maybe now as he's the poster child of the WWE, with merchandise plastered all over the place. Certainly someone would recognize him?!
But aside from that, I think we really need to establish those boundaries and narrow things down a bit to really determine what an "Icon" is. Can't make it more simple than that!
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Post by jeromy1983 on May 11, 2012 11:10:18 GMT -5
I agree that the term icon gets tossed around pretty freely, but at the same time it's a matter of personal opinion and it's all in the eye of the beholder. In music both the Beatles and the Stones are considered icons. I love the Beatles but don't care for the Rolling Stones all that much, but if you ask someone who doesn't know much about rock and roll history chances are they will know who both bands are.
If you ask somebody who doesn't watch wrestling to name some wrestlers they will more than likely say Hogan, Rock, Austin, and maybe Cena if they watch Nickelodeon. All of these guys were at there peak working for McMahon. WWF/E cemented itself as the pinnacle of professional wrestling in the 80s and many who don't follow wrestling know of no other company.
Was Sting a great wrestler? Yes. Was he one of the most popular in WCW history? Yes. Is he known outside of wrestling? Not really. If he would have signed on with WWF in the late 80s early 90s I think his character would have been hugely successful because he was one of the top guys in WCW. But then again so was Lex Lugar, and his stint in WWF is forgettable. I think Sting would have had more success than Lugar in WWF because his image was more fitting to the demographic of the time. Look what his former tag partner Ultimate Warrior did in that era, and I think we can all agree Sting was a better performer than Warrior.
What Animal was trying to do with his comment I'm not sure, but for those of us who watched wrestling at the time, not just WWF, he was one of the best. If he were to go and work for Vince now it wouldn't do much for me because he is way past his prime. I'm sure after he retires from TNA he will be inducted in the hall of fame.
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DMK
Infinity Challenge
"I'm the best there is at what I do. And what I do isn't very nice."
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Post by DMK on May 12, 2012 17:19:54 GMT -5
People tend to refer to people as legends or icons when they've been around for a really long time. I personally don't think Sting is an icon, it's simply a nickname that TNA uses for him.
Sting, if he's looking to finish his career out strong should probably sign a deal with Vince. I don't know what the WWE could really do with Sting that I'd be all that interested in, but it makes sense financially for him to come on in for a big WrestleMania match. The Undertaker is the obvious choice for Sting's opponent and would probably do very well. I also think the two could put on one hell of a match.
Sting is doing himself a disservice by refusing to leave the sinking ship and join up with Vince' s operation. I don't really know what the point is anymore. It can't be about loyalty and I doubt Sting hates/still considers Vince/WWE the enemy. It's just a bad move on his part. Even if it's not about money, Sting should still swallow his pride and just give Vince a phone call. Hell, TNA is so awful Sting would be better off leaving and going to an indy (especially if it's not about the money). He might not get paid as much, but creatively he'd be far happier.
Even when Sting was in his prime I was never all that interested in him. During his silent phase in the late 90's, Sting, for me anyway, was at his best and most interesting, but of course WCW screwed that whole thing all up. To be fair, I didn't even know if Sting was still active or not since I have't watched TNA in God knows how long.
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Post by jeromy1983 on May 12, 2012 19:06:12 GMT -5
I don't even think he'd have a good match with Taker. The few matches I've seen of his in TNA over the last couple of years were ok at best. I'm saying that and I am a fan of his. If he signs with Vince now then I don't think it would be for an in ring position. He's good on the mic, given good writers he could be a lot better. I used to think his role in TNA was just to be there for the younger guys, but then again he's had multiple world title runs and a lot of the show is old WCW guys and guys who were pissed that Vince didn't give them a world title run in WWE. Except for RVD. I can't say anything bad about RVD, except about the movie him and Batista made.
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Post by jrgoldman on May 13, 2012 15:50:56 GMT -5
"he's well known by just about every wrestling fan' well, so is the Junkyard Dog. Or Tito Santana or Koko B. Ware. It's like saying Maroon 5 are Icon's like the Beatle's because people know about them. Or Justin Bieber is well known and has some hit's (i guess?) so he's an Icon like Elvis Presley. Or the Giants have won 2 Super Bowls, so they're like the Steeler's were in the 70s. To be fair, JYD was probably the number 2 face in wrestling in the mid 80s. There is an argument to be made. I think Sting has drastically increased his mystique by not going to the WWE. If he had, he would not be featured in discussions at all. Instead, he still gets mentioned as a notable figure simply because we have to ask what if. |
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Post by cromsdevil on May 14, 2012 3:20:10 GMT -5
I think Animal is 100% on the money. His comment should be given a lot of weight. It's not like his opinion could be slanted because his brother practically runs the WWE... Oh wait  |
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Post by on_the_edge on Jun 16, 2012 5:56:42 GMT -5
Of course Sting is an icon. He beat most of the top guys of his generation, many who are in the WWE HoF. He was involved in top story lines, had great matches, won about every belt/trophy he could during career and has a career that spans 4 decades.
Some of the reasons given for not being an icon are silly. Is not know by non wrestling fans? So what, we are talking wrestling not media. He has not worked for WWE? Again so what. They are pretty much the dominating force these days but have been so for only a decade. There is a lot of wrestling history and WWE until the mid 80's was a regional promotion themselves. But if it helps, once Sting is done wrestling he can get a job as a road agent or something then be a "WWE guy".
If you still think he is not an Icon because he has not had any main stream success in movies or tv and because he never worked for Vince and WWE then fine. Sting is not an Icon. But I guess Zeus aka Tiny Lister Jr is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2012 9:03:22 GMT -5
Of course Sting is an icon. He beat most of the top guys of his generation, many who are in the WWE HoF. He was involved in top story lines, had great matches, won about every belt/trophy he could during career and has a career that spans 4 decades. Some of the reasons given for not being an icon are silly. Is not know by non wrestling fans? So what, we are talking wrestling not media. He has not worked for WWE? Again so what. They are pretty much the dominating force these days but have been so for only a decade. There is a lot of wrestling history and WWE until the mid 80's was a regional promotion themselves. But if it helps, once Sting is done wrestling he can get a job as a road agent or something then be a "WWE guy". If you still think he is not an Icon because he has not had any main stream success in movies or tv and because he never worked for Vince and WWE then fine. Sting is not an Icon. But I guess Zeus aka Tiny Lister Jr is. 110% AGREE |
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