Running a non-storyline fed... how?

[smathis]

Also, thanks to everyone posting.

It sometimes difficult to get a grip on how other people use a game like LOW. But I find different approaches give a game new life at times.

So this is all really helpful and I appreciate it.

thanks.

[Vegas]

Feb 5, 2009 21:42:36 GMT -5 smathis said:

Feb 5, 2009 20:27:05 GMT -5 Vegas said:

As I don't even keep won-loss records, my LOW fed Major League Wrestling (MLW) is based alot on storylines.

Instead of a wrestler's ranking or record, I often have things such as #1 contender matches, automatic title shots I award to the surviviors of the tag elimination matches at my Survivor Series PPV, and storylines based on my match results (i.e. Bruiser Brody was the last man in the elimination chamber with Jimmy Snuka for the vacant World Championship and now Brody gets a singles match against Snuka for the title) to determine things like title shots.

I also often use my dice-determined match results to create new stroylines and feuds in my fed.

I guess I'm looking for a middle ground. Where I can have guys wrestling on a schedule (like other sports) or via ranking or some such, but still have some wiggle room when the dice introduce an interesting feud (or storyline).

Much like you've mentioned, I've found that the dice inject enough "drama" into my fed. I'm no longer feeling the need to plan for such things.

I'd just like some sort of framework for letting the dice fall where they may.

So how do you determine the #1 Contenders? What about people entering and leaving your fed?

Smathis, to answer the two questions you asked me:

1) To determine #1 contenders, I do a number of different things. Some of these things I mentioned in my previous post on this thread. But I'll explain them in more detail.

Sometimes I'll have a #1 contenders' match with the winner of the match getting the next title shot. I did this last weekend on the Samckdown brand of my fed where the main event was a triple threat #1 contenders' match between Frank Gotch, Rikidozan, and Antonio Inoki (3 of the top wrestlers on that brand currently without a title). Gotch won that match and now has a match for the MLW Championship against the current champion Buddy Rogers scheduled for No Way Out on February 15th.

Also, my annual Survivor Series PPV really shakes up my fed as it consists of a series of 10 man tag elimination matches with the survivors getting automatic title shots. For example, this led to Steve "Dr. Death" Williams getting a title shot against the then-current United States Champion Dan "the Beast "Severn at my Armageddon PPV and Williams went on to win that match and is still my current United States Champion as a result.

Also, sometimes my match results themselves dictate a #1 contender. The most recent example I have of this was at my New Years Revolution PPV in which the main event was an elimination chmaber match for my vacant World Championship. The last two wrestlers in the match were Jimmy Snuka and Bruiser Brody, who I've previously teamed up together in my fed, with Snuka winning. But because Brody in that match actually eliminated all of the other 4 wrestlers, I awarded him an automatic title shot at the Royal Rumble based on that outstanding performance. At their Royal Rumble match, Brody got DQd and now to get a clear winner I've again set up Jimmy Snuka vs Bruiser Brody (but in a steel cage) at my Wrestlemania 2 PPV.

I also do some other alternative methods to determine a #1 contender. For example, at my recent Cyber Sunday PPV (due to the particular nature of that PPV), I put up a poll here to determine the wrestlers who would be challenging for titles that night. Pepper Gomez won the poll to challenge Cruiserweight Champion Gorgeous George and then went on to win that match and 3 months later Gomez is still my Cruiserweight Champion.

2) To determine when wrestlers leave or arrive in my fed: My LOW fed Major League Wrestling (MLW) has 3 brands: RAW, Smackdown and the EAWA (Extreme AWA) so I use almost all of the official LOW cards. But I switch the rosters around once a year through an annual draft between my different brands and I also have the option for trades between my brands as well.

[wildfire]

I think, when you get down to it:

Wrestling with no storylines = Boxing/MMA


You could also go with a league format.... Ultramagnus is doing it with the GWF, it seems pretty fun (in the fed forum, if you're interested)

I did a variation of this a ways back, with a definate system:

I choose 12 singles guys and 6 tag teams, then ran 3 'house show' cards, during which each wrestler/tag wrestled twice. I was using ELO ratings to rate the guys, but you could do something simpler just as well.
The 4th show was the 'TV' show, where the top 6 singles and top 4 tag teams would wrestle.

Repeat for 4 'weeks'...with no singles guy fighting anyone more than once on a house show, and making sure each tag team fights the other... the TV show is a 'bonus' match, and doesn't effect this.

after the 4th TV show, a month end PPV would pit the #1 Vs #2 guy in singles and tag to determine the champ for the month. I also had the bottom 4 guys (and two teams) fight, with the losers leaving next month.

You could go really crazy and have divisions ala English soccer to involve more guys.

[TTX]

These approaches seem similar, so I'm grouping them together. Is it all completely random or is there some rhyme and reason to it? Like how would you do rankings? How do you determine who comes in or out and when?
No rhyme nor reason for me..closest for that is that I usually (but not always) run LOTF on their own. I don't rank, I just keep a general track of whose doing well and who isn't.

Do you have a limit to the number of guys in your fed at a time? Or is it just everybody all at once?
I've never had any luck not using everyone.........I like seeing how everyone competes with everyone else.

Do you keep any win-loss records? Or is there some other means that you book who's moving into contention?[/quote]
I don't keep w/l records for any federation Legends or otherwise. Too mcuh bookkeeping> I just keep general track and can always consult cards I posted to see whose doing well and determine title shots that way and sometimes I just give random challengers a shot anyways.

[markyhitch]

My fed is not storyline-based. I really just line up a random set of matches and play them, like wrestling was run in England back in the 1980s.

However, I do form factions for a bit of fun, and any allies wrestlers have with others, they had them in real life. I do use the feud table if the situation arises but it serves only to give me an excuse for a rematch!

[graymar]

Feb 5, 2009 16:22:39 GMT -5 smathis said:

I have one that's really super long and has lots of ASCII art charts on it. You have to roll, like, two sets of dice and cross-reference the results.

Is that the one?

While I prefer the feud chart to the official one I don't know how that helps with non-storyline feds? Or even what a non-storyline fed would really look like?

A tournament? A series of matches?

Actually...the chart is pretty simple.

I'd be glad to send to anyone requesting if you send me your email.

Graymar

[smathis]

Thanks again to everybody. I think I understand it now. Sorry if I inundated anyone with questions. But I had a hard time visualizing how a non-storyline fed would work.

I think I get it now. And will give it a try soon.

Thanks.

[stu]

Good topic Smathis.

Someone said wrestling without storylines = boxing/MMA. He's right.

And that to me is the best form of "drama" or storyline, if you will...the unscripted chase for the title. I grew up liking boxing as much, and probably more at times, than wrestling. It was always about proving who the best man was when 2 combatants stepped into the ring. Various wrestling territories/feds have implemented this strategy, with St. Louis of old probably closest resembling this wrestling-as-sport model.

While I enjoy many formats of wrestling, the one I prefer the most is wrestling-as-sport. And that's what a fed without storylines is...cards built upon the premise that wrestlers are trying to win, move up in status, and eventually contend for a/the title.

Now, that being said, rivalries/feuds still spring up, but they are organic in nature, coming as a consequence to the end of a match. You don't need to necessarily plan for these, they just happen when the magic is there between 2 combatants. Witness Ali-Frazier, Hagler-Leonard, Leonard-Duran, and for that matter Flair-Steamboat and Flair-Rhodes.

I play mostly St. Louis style. I have an "open" fed, where wrestlers come to town to prove their mettle, and hopefully win enough to stick around and eventually contend for a title. That's really the only "storyline" there is...wrestlers trying to prove they are the best. I don't have a set roster, although I do have regulars that stick around town, or compete in the fed often, like St. Louis did.

Feuds crop up as the result of the match results. And that's all there is to it.

And...its every bit as fun as having a lot of storylines, at least to me.

With all this said, I'll admit that I do like to have at least one pseudo-storyline going on in the background. In my GWF, its the battle of two mega personalities Iron Hand and Omega for real control and influence of the fed, for example.

But, other than that, its setting up cards I as a fan would like to see, trying to match up by styles to make good fights, and letting the chips fall where they may.

Again, good topic.

[smathis]

Feb 11, 2009 13:18:38 GMT -5 stu said:

But, other than that, its setting up cards I as a fan would like to see, trying to match up by styles to make good fights, and letting the chips fall where they may.

Again, good topic.

Thanks, Stu.

Believe it or not, there was a point in time where the "realness" of wrestling as a sport was up for debate. I remember those times. And it's just a different experience now with everything out in the open. Just go back and watch some of the NWA or even AWA title matches of old. It seems like you can't find that kind of crowd reaction in anything other than ROH these days.

So I totally appreciate the "wrestling-as-sport" approach.

I've been interested in giving this a try since reading Wrestling at the Chase. A really nice book, btw. But I had never gotten it off the ground because there was a real question, for me, of how to do rankings, how many feds to run at once, how to cycle guys out of my feds, etc.

But I just rebooted my fed last night with this approach and it rocked. I modified Wildfire's approach slightly. I have a tentative "schedule" (for lack of a better term) akin to what WF describes. But I'm also keeping a little bit open there to handle rematches and such, kind of like Mr. Vegas mentions.

It's a lot of fun thus far and I haven't been this excited about LOW in a while. It's much easier to ride out the schedule for the house shows and then line up the most interesting matches for the PPVs.

Much like ROH, I'm keeping feud matches down. Maybe one or two a card. But I'm limiting the gimmick matches. Most of the motivations around the wrestlers currently in the fed is to prove that they are the best in the LWF.

And it's really nice to handle it this way. Snuka and Thesz (I use some bootlegs, this would be Cory & Co's Thesz. I consider their bootlegs to be one step shy of official) is turning into a nice feud. And the Heartbreak Express almost beat the former two time Tag Champs The Valiants!

I felt tempted to set up some sort of thing between Jonny Fairplay and the Heenan Family after that match but I stopped myself and said: "You know what? You don't really need to do that. Let the dice fall where they may."

Because the Heartbreak Express proved they weren't going to be confined to the bottom rung of the tag division in that match and the Valiants took a serious hit on their viability to take the tag belts for a third time at the end of the month. They'll have something to prove in their next match against the Fantastics.

Overall, this is a refreshing approach. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and insight.

[markyhitch]

If you are hoping to favour certain wrestlers and such, you are setting yourself up for disappointment really as they will only do as good as the combination of their stats and dicerolls allow them.