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Post by Cory Olson on Apr 22, 2022 8:32:24 GMT -5
This is some really great discussion! In my USWA, I have used a few of the LOTF cards on a regular basis, as I felt Jon Knapik did a great job of balancing them to go against LOW cards. From the LOTF sets, I have used Claudio Castagnoli, Brodie Lee, Jimmy Jacobs, Tyler Black, and Necro Butcher. Necro was a shorter-term deal but the others were long-term. Claudio and Brodie captured my Mid-America title, which is a title I would definitely want those level of guys challenging for and winning. When Claudio won the belt, I actually switched over to his LOW 12 card, as I had the storyline be that he couldn't beat Bryan Danielson with the Ricola Bomb, so he introduced his new finisher--the Neutralizer to win the belt. I recently switched Brodie Lee's card from the LOTF version to his Chikara card, as I liked the color artwork better. I modify the stats to be more comparable to the LOTF ones, as I didn't feel the Chikara stats were quite right in the LOW universe. I also brought in Adam Pearce from Grant's ( throwingtoasters) Championship Wrestling from Hollywood set. I liked the color artwork and overall moveset better than Pearce's LOTF card. I did tweak him just a bit to make slightly weaker. But he has done very well in his first few months in my fed and I have no problem with that, given his career accomplishments. I think Zeke ( Vegas) does a great job on the current indie stats! In my opinion, he makes the stats overall comparable to each other and to LOW guys. There are a few of his guys (Harry Smith and Pete Dunne are a couple of examples) I could definitely see bringing into my USWA at some point in the future. |
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Post by kaeden31 on Apr 24, 2022 1:15:23 GMT -5
I personally take it on a case by case basis. If we're using the Bryan Danielson example, yes his card is very strong but I don't personally mind because he's had a pretty stellar career and he's someone I personally like and feel could/should be at the top of the LOW rankings. Same with AJ Styles. BUT there are definitely some indy cards that are higher than I would like them for my Legends fed. I understand why, I'm not here to the great work that people like Zeke and Ty do. It would suck for Indies players if all of their cards were ranked so they always had really short matches or something. So, I either choose not to use cards that aren't statted the way I would want them for my fed, or I make adjustments like making their pin rating higher. I feel like a lot of the guys who are in this gray area of whether they should be in Legends rather than Indies, fall pretty squarely as a mid-carder stat-wise, which is usually pretty right on. There are probably some specific examples that people could argue about but overall, I've been very happy with most of the ones that I actually care about. Okay, I don't want to bring the conversation backwards, but I am still not clear. I'm taking these responses to mean that the "Indies" cards are scaled separately from the "Legends" series. I just want to reiterate, my question is not about the merits of "Indies" cards being equal to "Legends", but to clarify if they are written as such. Put another way: There used to be two football video games on the market; Madden, and NCAA. Both evaluated players on a scale of 1-100. In both games, the very best players would be rated 99. But we know, IRL, that even the most exceptional NCAA player is not going to perform at that same level in the NFL. So, each was effectively its own ecosystem. A 99 Overall in NCAA was equal to like an 80 overall in Madden, but the developer had the good sense not to make an NCAA game where only the most exceptional players broke 70 overall. The impression I am getting is that this is the case; "indies" cards, and sets like ROH and Chikara are rated as their own contained systems, with the top guys getting "Main Eventer" ratings, comparable to the LOW's "Main Eventer" ratings. Which makes sense from a playability standpoint. I don't have enough experience to comment on statting, or evaluate which ones are too strong, or not strong enough. But I imagine there must be someone at the FG-level who can definitively state if these were meant to be interchangeable. |
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Post by tystates on Apr 24, 2022 11:22:57 GMT -5
They are meant to be interchangeable. Each player has to decide which indy cards they are fine with competing against the Legends. In general though Indy cards are statted against other indy names. Especially a set specific set. When you've played more you'll be able to look at a card and decide if you think it's too strong to face the Legends cards or not.
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Post by pikemojo on Apr 24, 2022 16:29:14 GMT -5
I can't speak for the people doing the stats but it feels like they are statted independent of each other. BUT there are not many indy wrestlers who are statted as high as guys like Thesz, Randy Savage, etc.
I'd be curious if those doing the statting will actually compare cards to other cards as a sort of benchmark to see if things feel right or if they just have an internal "clock" for where they feel each wrestler fits.
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Post by Slymm on May 20, 2022 15:14:13 GMT -5
So, Zeke wrote Storm, Cardona & Myers making them 'Indy' guys, while Cory & Chad wrote Bodhi, Lane & Daivari making them 'Legends' guys.
So what about Madison Rayne and Petey Williams? Indy or Legends?
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Post by Cory Olson on May 21, 2022 10:15:19 GMT -5
So, Zeke wrote Storm, Cardona & Myers making them 'Indy' guys, while Cory & Chad wrote Bodhi, Lane & Daivari making them 'Legends' guys. So what about Madison Rayne and Petey Williams? Indy or Legends? I did Petey's stats. I can't remember who made Madison but I don't think it was anyone on the LOW team. |
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Post by Travis605 on May 21, 2022 10:35:56 GMT -5
So, Zeke wrote Storm, Cardona & Myers making them 'Indy' guys, while Cory & Chad wrote Bodhi, Lane & Daivari making them 'Legends' guys. So what about Madison Rayne and Petey Williams? Indy or Legends? I did Petey's stats. I can't remember who made Madison but I don't think it was anyone on the LOW team. Ty maybe? |
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Post by TTX on May 21, 2022 10:37:33 GMT -5
Ty I believe.
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Post by Gunslinger on May 21, 2022 11:23:46 GMT -5
Might we be getting a new color Claudio card now that he's a free agent?
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Post by tystates on May 21, 2022 11:33:43 GMT -5
I wrote Madison's card. Since she's still active you could call her an Indy. If not now then later she could have a Legends card. Same with Angelina Love.
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