WWF stuff

[Swarm]

Aug 3, 2021 16:01:25 GMT -5 Pete said:

I really don't have any doubt that Vince has soured on NXT as a brand after their Wednesday Night War failure, or perceived failure. HHH feels more and more marginalized practically every day.

The Lee-Kross stuff is whatever, though it sure comes to me more as writers throwing darts at a board to decide who goes over rather than any sort of grand plan. What completely baffles me is the stuff with Nikki Cross and Charlotte. So Nikki gets destroyed by Charlotte one week and loses a virtual squash, but is happy anyway because she "almost" won. She challenges Charlotte again, gets killed most of the way again, but wins on a banana-peel finish. This is a title shot eliminator match for Charlotte (even though she already squashed the champion), but Charlotte's in the triple threat at SummerSlam anyway even though she lost the rematch? And if you're booking Nikki as a plucky underdog building to a big payoff, that's one thing, but Nikki is already the Women's Champion. I don't get why you would book a babyface champion like that and I'm flabbergasted at how badly WWE has dropped the ball on this when booking babyface champions was a longtime staple and strong suit of the company. The way they're booking Nikki, it's like Rudy making a game-winning sack for Notre Dame during the opening credits--just completely backwards. And it's really hard to get invested in a wrestling storyline when wins and losses matter so little.

Nikki being the Women's Champion also speaks to my issues with Money in the Bank as a concept--I'm not sure it's ever really worked to get anyone over outside of Edge and RVD. All it really seems to do is create an endless series of champions who win the title on a fluke of the rules and not because they're the best guy or woman in the division.

Edit: Regarding NXT, they made a big to-do about how it was "no longer developmental" when it went to USA and was instead a third brand. If they want to treat it as developmental, fine, but to acknowledge Charlotte's title reigns before and then go back on it for no perceptible reason afterward is yet another instance of WWE booking as they go without any regard for anything that happened a week or more ago. It's also hard to see it as "developmental" when you have lifers there like Cole and Ciampa and Gargano who not only have been in "developmental" for years but in some cases were actively fighting being moved to the main roster. You don't see NCAA championships being counted with Super Bowl rings, but you also don't have guys deciding to give the NFL a pass and trying to get an 8th year of college eligibility because they're happier there, either.

I think things changed w NXT when they failed to meet expectations. I have no doubt they had plans to treat it one way (which explains the Charlotte reigns) then changed those plans when NXT didn’t develop as hoped.

Had NXT succeeded as planned those 3 reigns prob don’t get removed. No point in using something to boost a main character if most fans don’t know about it.

NXT is not WWE’s most popular show. It might be the favorite show of some fans, but it’s a distant 3rd behind Raw and SD. And just like Tom doesn’t like to mix GWF with FTR or Centra or Kronos - it’s because not every fan who plays GWF also plays those games. Same w NXT. Not everyone who watches WWE watches NXT.

[Wookie7969]

Just to play devil's advocate here on the KK issue. Nxt is the 3rd brand of wwe, that is what they have called it. Now you have your champion, unbeaten and dominant, he goes to another brand or.... Territory and loses to a mid card at best talent. How can that guy go back to his reign as champion and still expect to look like a dominant monster.

For anyone saying but its OK, back in the NWA/territory days you wouldn't have had ric flair go to another area and lose to a lower mid level guy because it would have killed his credibility as champion. Essentially that is what they did with Kross having him lose to Hardy regardless of feet on the ropes or whatever. Vince needs to stop looking at nxt as an indy show and realise nxt is not competing with raw and smackdown.
Also to the comment above that said Charlotte 3 nxt reigns aren't counted same as you wouldn't count bradys ncaa wins. Fair point BUT they did count Charlottes nxt wins. Even at the ppv they counted it. When did it change? The next night on raw, the same night Kross debuted.

VKM does not care about fans or the product. It's all about money and to him that's raw and smackdown. That's evident that its all about money when you look at the cuts because of budget.

[LAWraith]

I think in response to previous post, in the territory days if you lived in NY you saw NY wrestling. So if say Bob from Bufalo was champion but then went to Florida and lost you might not have seen it. I think that's why NXT is different, it's on national TV where most "Indy" feds are not. I feel NXT is a higher status because of that.

One thing I do kind of question though is time slot and name recognition. A curious experiment would be exchanging NXT and RAW but leave the name of the show and timeslot the same to see what happens. I feel like there would be no change cause the RAW viewers are loyal viewers and would watch whatever in that timeslot. Just a thought.

PS NXt to me this week was a lot more watchable and enjoyable than RAW

[foxone1]

Aug 4, 2021 9:11:38 GMT -5 LAWraith said:

I think in response to previous post, in the territory days if you lived in NY you saw NY wrestling. So if say Bob from Bufalo was champion but then went to Florida and lost you might not have seen it. I think that's why NXT is different, it's on national TV where most "Indy" feds are not. I feel NXT is a higher status because of that.

One thing I do kind of question though is time slot and name recognition. A curious experiment would be exchanging NXT and RAW but leave the name of the show and timeslot the same to see what happens. I feel like there would be no change cause the RAW viewers are loyal viewers and would watch whatever in that timeslot. Just a thought.

PS NXt to me this week was a lot more watchable and enjoyable than RAW

Interesting point about switching the brands name and time slot to see how the ratings would change. A few years ago before nxt was on national TV they did just that. I don't remember exactly when but the raw and smackdown roster were stuck over seas and the wwe used nxt talent to fill in. I don't know how that affected the ratings but I'd be curious to know.

[Tournament Master]

Aug 4, 2021 9:11:38 GMT -5 LAWraith said:

PS NXt to me this week was a lot more watchable and enjoyable than RAW

In related news the sun rose this morning.

[Wookie7969]

Aug 4, 2021 11:33:24 GMT -5 foxone1 said:

Aug 4, 2021 9:11:38 GMT -5 LAWraith said:

I think in response to previous post, in the territory days if you lived in NY you saw NY wrestling. So if say Bob from Bufalo was champion but then went to Florida and lost you might not have seen it. I think that's why NXT is different, it's on national TV where most "Indy" feds are not. I feel NXT is a higher status because of that.

One thing I do kind of question though is time slot and name recognition. A curious experiment would be exchanging NXT and RAW but leave the name of the show and timeslot the same to see what happens. I feel like there would be no change cause the RAW viewers are loyal viewers and would watch whatever in that timeslot. Just a thought.

PS NXt to me this week was a lot more watchable and enjoyable than RAW

Interesting point about switching the brands name and time slot to see how the ratings would change. A few years ago before nxt was on national TV they did just that. I don't remember exactly when but the raw and smackdown roster were stuck over seas and the wwe used nxt talent to fill in. I don't know how that affected the ratings but I'd be curious to know.

That particular show which was effected because of the Saudi issues had 2.5million viewers compared to the previous weeks 888,000 viewers

[LAWraith]

Aug 4, 2021 12:12:04 GMT -5 Tournament Master said:

Aug 4, 2021 9:11:38 GMT -5 LAWraith said:

PS NXt to me this week was a lot more watchable and enjoyable than RAW

In related news the sun rose this morning.

Todd's are supposed to stick together, Toddlaw, no sarcasm 😛

[wildfire]

I haven't watched NXT for a long time... when I did, it was legitimately a developmental fed. Some people there took off (Charlotte, Bayley, Finn Balor, Sami Zayne, Kevin Owens)...some didn't (Vaudevillians, The Ascension, Aiden Christian).. part of the fun was having the guys you like get the call up.

Having NXT just be a WWE sponsored indy fed is weird... IS it on par with Raw and Smackdown? Ever since the 'Brand' era and each show being run like a separate fed, it's been a little odd, since we all know they're not really separate. It didn't work with ECW when they tried it, and, based on the fact they lost to AEW, it's not working now.

I think the problem was they like the hype of how great NXT was go to their heads... instead of being happy they developed a bunch of new stars, and start on the next crop, they let it get away.

[Swarm]

So the WWE draft is easily the silliest thing in wrestling. It’s unbelievable how bad it is. Nobody drafted Bron Breakker or the NXT champion? Lol I get it, those guys obviously can’t be drafted but in kayfabe the whole entire thing is ridiculous. How do you draft a guy you already have? Not how drafts work at all. Having two people stand at a podium and rush through the picks...it’s just so terrible in every way I can believe it. It could be so good too. It’s a draft. Only WWE could screw up a draft.

[LAWraith]

Honestly steal from the NFL, everyone is so afraid now a days to borrow ideas. Its America, melting pot of ideas.

Entering the draft your champions should be locked they cant be drafted just because the network asks for someone. Second give the commissioner some franchise tags. You get all your champs and you get to franchise tag say a guy, a girl and a tag team. Everyone else eligible in draft.