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Post by Crossbones on Sept 19, 2023 9:59:32 GMT -5
What I would like to see in the Early Classics is really good artwork, so new wrestlers from those sets, and the cards could compete with the new cards on some level.
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Post by Swarm on Sept 19, 2023 11:14:00 GMT -5
What I would like to see in the Early Classics is really good artwork, so new wrestlers from those sets, and the cards could compete with the new cards on some level. The Early Classics set will be challenging since the cards will need to be in line with the 2087 set and really nothing like the current crop of COTG cards using elaborate mechanics, roll finishers and Add 1 moves. You’ve got to respect the evolution in COTG history. ANDROMEDA DROP (tag) was the first tag finisher. HELLFIRE was the first DQ finisher. COSMIC BIG BANG was the first roll finisher. Vengeance had the first Add 1 move. Justice had the first 4(1) PIN. None of these things should appear in the EC set. These need to be primitive stats, illustrating the gritty, straight forward way of doing things was in the GWF before the Code was broken, staying true to storyline history as well as gaming and stat history. That doesn’t mean some of them shouldn’t be able to compete with the current card model, but the set should be full of guys with 9(7), 8(5), 7(4) and 6(3) PIN ratings and your top guy would have a 5 (2) w a +4 finisher. I don’t even think multiple singles finishers came along until the Galactic Punisher? I might be wrong about that one. |
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Post by Crossbones on Sept 19, 2023 11:32:57 GMT -5
What I would like to see in the Early Classics is really good artwork, so new wrestlers from those sets, and the cards could compete with the new cards on some level. The Early Classics set will be challenging since the cards will need to be in line with the 2087 set and really nothing like the current crop of COTG cards using elaborate mechanics, roll finishers and Add 1 moves. You’ve got to respect the evolution in COTG history. ANDROMEDA DROP (tag) was the first tag finisher. HELLFIRE was the first DQ finisher. COSMIC BIG BANG was the first roll finisher. Vengeance had the first Add 1 move. Justice had the first 4(1) PIN. None of these things should appear in the EC set. These need to be primitive stats, illustrating the gritty, straight forward way of doing things was in the GWF before the Code was broken, staying true to storyline history as well as gaming and stat history. That doesn’t mean some of them shouldn’t be able to compete with the current card model, but the set should be full of guys with 9(7), 8(5), 7(4) and 6(3) PIN ratings and your top guy would have a 5 (2) w a +4 finisher. I don’t even think multiple singles finishers came along until the Galactic Punisher? I might be wrong about that one. I understand where you are coming from Rob and it makes sense. I just wanted to use them in my Kronos Fed without having to put them in their own division. |
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Post by "Emperor Norton" (Mark T) on Sept 19, 2023 11:47:43 GMT -5
What I would like to see in the Early Classics is really good artwork, so new wrestlers from those sets, and the cards could compete with the new cards on some level. The Early Classics set will be challenging since the cards will need to be in line with the 2087 set and really nothing like the current crop of COTG cards using elaborate mechanics, roll finishers and Add 1 moves. You’ve got to respect the evolution in COTG history. ANDROMEDA DROP (tag) was the first tag finisher. HELLFIRE was the first DQ finisher. COSMIC BIG BANG was the first roll finisher. Vengeance had the first Add 1 move. Justice had the first 4(1) PIN. None of these things should appear in the EC set. These need to be primitive stats, illustrating the gritty, straight forward way of doing things was in the GWF before the Code was broken, staying true to storyline history as well as gaming and stat history. That doesn’t mean some of them shouldn’t be able to compete with the current card model, but the set should be full of guys with 9(7), 8(5), 7(4) and 6(3) PIN ratings and your top guy would have a 5 (2) w a +4 finisher. I don’t even think multiple singles finishers came along until the Galactic Punisher? I might be wrong about that one. ................. This. Lord Nexus had the first dual (0) finisher, Bishop the first with a (0) and a second with a disq roll, Punisher was the first with a straight double finisher that has one higher than (0). Furthermore, EC should come with a pdf of the original charts. That would really put the set into perspective and be more in line with what they represent than the current charts. |
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Post by Pete on Sept 19, 2023 11:51:10 GMT -5
I can't remember if anyone in the blue-ink Classics sets had an Add 1 or not, but there were at least two tag finishers (Dorado Sundown's RUSTLERS' STAMPEDE and CrossCurrents' WATERY GRAVE).
Massacre had two finishers in the first set, though they were both (0)s.
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Post by Tournament Master on Sept 19, 2023 12:28:23 GMT -5
In my experience over the years, even with the black and white sets, there was a big dip after the Invasion sets and another after Wargames when new customers came in. I do agree with TTX that not everyone is going to buy everything now, and we also cant keep up with the level of releases we could have a couple years ago. So at this point we feel pausing on the 2090's sets and finally giving folks the early years of the GWF that have been long asked for is the way to satisfy more folks. Except perhaps the promoters who completed the Early Classics years already.  |
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Post by Vegas on Sept 19, 2023 17:22:36 GMT -5
I can't remember if anyone in the blue-ink Classics sets had an Add 1 or not, but there were at least two tag finishers (Dorado Sundown's RUSTLERS' STAMPEDE and CrossCurrents' WATERY GRAVE). Massacre had two finishers in the first set, though they were both (0)s. plus tag team finishers would have existed in real life wresling for many years prior to 2074 anyway Mimic on his blue and white classics card has two (0) finishers. I know because I lost to Mimic in the jobbers tournament the year Galacticon was in Chicago lol and I remember wondering why a wrestler with multiple fnshers taking up 1/3 of Level 3 Offense was in the jobbers tournament (didn't Mimic go on to win that tournament?) In has been years since I played with the blue and white Classics cards that Tom wrote the stats for. But I do specifcally remember Torin Caleum having a 4 (1) PIN and I think Morpheus and some others did too. Also, wasn't the Savage Face Claw on Wolf's blue and white Classics card originally an Add 1 move and not a finisher? |
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Post by TTX on Sept 19, 2023 17:25:43 GMT -5
Mimic did win that tournament and I did question Mike why he was putting him in there but he kept him in there anyways. You are correct on Wolf and both that and Dorado Sundown were Tom decisions so he's not bound to go with no tag finishers because of the Andromeda Drop or no add 1s because of the Eye Cleaver. (Plus Thetis and Vortex are built around tag wrestling so a tag finisher for them makes super sense)
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Post by Pete on Sept 19, 2023 18:28:29 GMT -5
Yes, Wolf's Savage Face Claw was an Add 1, now that you mention it.
I sort of see wrestling as having "reset" itself during the banishment--the cards are from the future but they still pre-date shooting star presses, destroyers, etc. So I saw the early GWF as very "back-to-basics" as folks had to learn the craft all over again, which is why atomic drops and piledrivers were deadly finishers all over again and nobody was doing power bombs or moonsaults.
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Post by Swarm on Sept 20, 2023 7:22:23 GMT -5
Yes, Wolf's Savage Face Claw was an Add 1, now that you mention it. I sort of see wrestling as having "reset" itself during the banishment--the cards are from the future but they still pre-date shooting star presses, destroyers, etc. So I saw the early GWF as very "back-to-basics" as folks had to learn the craft all over again, which is why atomic drops and piledrivers were deadly finishers all over again and nobody was doing power bombs or moonsaults. I think even Tom would admit he wasn’t putting a whole lot of effort into those Classics sets, certainly not with the passion and great attention to detail he was when writing the GWF sets back then. Maybe the first one w Omega, but a lot of those blue sets were nothing close to the level of main story GWF sets. I don’t think they should act as any strong barometer when designing Early Classics. Instead, I’d use 2087 as the blueprint. |
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