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Post by jrgoldman on Mar 20, 2012 16:30:10 GMT -5
While we can't and shouldn't get in to a large game of what if, protest both peaceful and otherwise has played a major role in bringing about social change both in the United States and internationally. Hunger strikes, organized labor protests and the civil rights movement have been defining moments throughout history.
The problem with Occupy was not the message, which I think in some way everyone on the board can relate to, it was the execution. What started as an earnest effort was turned in to a place to be seen, which is not a problem of the message, but a problem with my generation and the one below me. With facebook and twitter, we are more concerned with proving to people that we were there and we were part of something than actually getting invested in a cause. What started as an effort to educate turned in to a drum circle and a dance party.
I think we have done a disservice to what is happening here by bringing politics in to it. I am proud to live in a country in which I can voice my displeasure with it's decisions, and I am proud that others I do not agree with have that right as well. When this country tells me I no longer have the right to freely question it's choices, I feel as though a dark day has passed, and I am ashamed that my generation has managed to be so annoying to previous ones that this bill is being celebrated and not opposed universally.
JR.
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Post by Pete on Mar 20, 2012 16:39:25 GMT -5
Meanwhile most people are suffering with falling home prices, increased foreclosures and inability to get out of upside down loans. But you don't have a home. So that doesn't affect you. So you call the guy that tried to stop all that the worst President ever. Not the guy who voted it in - the guy who tried to stop it. "Tried to" or "did"? I'm more interested in the latter. The housing bust began under Bush's watch. Sort of like how Bush gets (or takes) credit for keeping us "safe" after 9/11 while somehow foisting that off as Clinton's fault. It still happened under HIS administration. I'm not going to claim to know nearly as much about the housing market as you or anyone else who's career is in the field, but I'm not sold that Bush really was concerned about it either, or at least concerned enough about it. As for kids and such...absolutely, that matters (though an actual owned house, probably not for me), but it was Bush who foisted No Child Left Behind (or rather, No Child Gets Ahead) on us and it's his party that's all for breaking teachers' unions and slashing funding to public schools (here I go getting into Red vs. Blue again which I decried like 3 posts ago). Then we get into the comments that Rick Santorum has made about education...the anti-intellectualism agenda fostered by the Republican Party and the People in Charge (that means "people with money," of any political persuasion) in general is staggering and indisputable. I guess ultimately the point is that even if I get indisputable evidence that Bush made every effort to prevent this housing market collapse but had it undone by fate or the following President or bin Laden or whatever, it still wouldn't be enough to offset the Iraq War, the Katrina response, the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, NCLB, the Federal Defense of Marriage Act, and the myriad other disasters both figurative and literal that occurred under his watch. It's like trying to bring up how clean-cut Jim Tressel was. Yeah, great, but he still lied and tried to cover up NCAA violations--that's enough to take you down and enough to tarnish your legacy. What Bush did was enough to offset whatever good he did or "tried to" do with the housing market. Obama has been far from perfect: I brought up Guantanamo, which he hasn't kept his campaign promise to close, and the Patriot Act, which probably isn't as bad as the NDAA which Obama signed. But at this point any attempts to brand him as the "Worst President Ever" shows a total lack of perspective. The Carter Administration was worse. Harding and Nixon were far worse just for how they were brought down (Harding had the good fortune to die but would have been impeached and then removed from office had he not). Hayes and Grant were worse, as were a rash of ineffective leaders who came after the Founding Father Era (the Pierce/Fillmore/Buchanan types). But as it is, the economy is still improving to a greater degree than it would have under Bush or McCain, troops are out of Iraq, and we have a plan to be out of Afghanistan. What that counts for to every individual voter is indeterminate, but for me that counts for a hell of a lot. |
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Post by swarm on Mar 20, 2012 16:56:25 GMT -5
Meanwhile most people are suffering with falling home prices, increased foreclosures and inability to get out of upside down loans. But you don't have a home. So that doesn't affect you. So you call the guy that tried to stop all that the worst President ever. Not the guy who voted it in - the guy who tried to stop it. "Tried to" or "did"? I'm more interested in the latter. The housing bust began under Bush's watch. No. It didn't. Not even close. I truly would love to debate this but you are totally in the dark. The info is out there. And while there was no stopping the subprime mortgage crisis created by the democrats and pushed onto us by Obama, Bush did put a serious cork in it with the FHA regulated programs. Since you are so interested in it, I suggest looking that info up too. |
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Post by executioner on Mar 20, 2012 18:34:42 GMT -5
I'd just like to go on the record saying I DO think Executioner is evil. That's why he hangs out with Thantos. Thantos and I are already planning an attack on Mr Hyde. ;D |
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Post by Phoenix on Mar 20, 2012 18:46:30 GMT -5
Pete i seriously don't remember President George W. Bush blaming President Clinton for 9/11.
Perhaps some talk radio hosts play that game, but i've never heard him do that.
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Post by LWPD on Mar 20, 2012 20:04:01 GMT -5
I'd just like to go on the record saying I DO think Executioner is evil. That's why he hangs out with Thantos. I think with Executioner, different stages of his career showcased various degrees of evil. Marcel de Sade was his angry young man/emo phase. Thantos later corrupted him over to the darkside with the hooded medieval killer gimmick. By the time he became Whiplash, he was a pure sadist. In his final run without the mask, sans the fancy DBAs and sporting the Mr. Clean look...his screwball mind was willing, but his beaten down body wasn't always able! On topic: For those interested, the text of the two page bill ( H.R. 347: Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011) can be found here. As written, its very limited in scope, which probably accounts for the broadly bi-partisan support and passage. How it will be applied in the future remains to be seen. The upcoming Democrat and Republican Conventions 'will' involve secret service personnel and will fall under the umbrella of the law. |
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